The 7th Seal


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I am interested to understand people's perspective, knowledge, regarding the opening of the 7th seal. At this moment, I have understood that the 7th seal opens up with the millennium, thus opening up another 1000 year dispensation.

I have read other comments where people are sharing that the 7th seal has already opened. Where do you stand and why (scriptural and leadership links would be welcome)?

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Well, after the seventh seal opens I believe there is supposed to be 30 minutes of silence from heaven.  Postulation would indicate that this is a period where nothing is really heard from above...which could be interesting in regards to LDS modern thoughts on the matter.  It could be that individuals can receive revelation but no one actually hears directly or is visited directly???

However, if one does the math it also indicates that if we are using a LITERAL translation that would mean we have to wait around 41 2/3 years before the actual second coming in that regards...though in truth the half hour of silence could be symbolic.

I find it interesting all those that claimed the second coming in the year 2000, because as per the scriptures, even if we take them literally, we still had the half hour of silence after that, if I recall right.

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I"ll keep this person anonymous but there are people who've studied this quite a bit and say that Pres. Hinckley indicated the seal opened at the dedication of the Palmyra Temple: 

April 6, 2000 was the prophesied temple dedication from Revelations 7 & Joel 1 where all members would attend. Not possible in our day if not for technology which allowed ALL worthy members to watch as Palmyra was the first (of only two temple dedications) that were televised world wide. And immediately after, in Rev 8:1 the 7th seal was opened, and the space of 'half an hour' (or 20.83 years in the Lords time) began.

As far as where I stand, I think it's better to think things are closer than to think we still have a long way to go.

Edited by my two cents
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36 minutes ago, my two cents said:

I"ll keep this person anonymous but there are people who've studied this quite a bit and say that Pres. Hinckley indicated the seal opened at the dedication of the Palmyra Temple: 

April 6, 2000 was the prophesied temple dedication from Revelations 7 & Joel 1 where all members would attend. Not possible in our day if not for technology which allowed ALL worthy members to watch as Palmyra was the first (of only two temple dedications) that were televised world wide. And immediately after, in Rev 8:1 the 7th seal was opened, and the space of 'half an hour' (or 20.83 years in the Lords time) began.

As far as where I stand, I think it's better to think things are closer than to think we still have a long way to go.

So from the above,  I (actually) did the math and we can deduce that Christ will return on February 3, 2021!  (just kidding!  Do NOT deduce this - it NEVER works when people try this.)

When it comes to the Second Coming, based on world events, I personally don't think it is going to happen in my lifetime (I used to feel differently), but you never know - things could change very, very quickly very, very suddenly, I suppose.  My opinion is based off of the number of very dramatic signs of the times which have not yet been fulfilled, as well as the fact that the world appears to me to have actually gotten (as a net whole) better and not worse from 1990 through 2010 (though this is just my opinion from my vantage point and may now be reversing).  Maybe I'm just not a very apocalyptic kind of guy.

That said, I could be hit by a bus tomorrow and find myself face to face with Jesus.  My own personal second coming could happen next week, so it is very important to stay worthy at all times.  I think this is far more likely to occur than living to see the second coming at this point.

Edited by DoctorLemon
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7 hours ago, DoctorLemon said:

You have my interest.  Please explain!

Also anonymous but something to consider: 

The signs are happening in such rapid succession, there can be no doubt we are in the last few years.  We know He will come and work on the earth helping to build the New Jerusalem and be in Adam Ondi-Ahman and the Old Jerusalem several years before he officially comes in His Glory.

I'm not an expert or here to convince anyone of anything. I also realize people are at different levels of readiness for this information but again, there are people studying and paying attention and noticing the subtle clues Church leaders have and are giving. 

Edited by my two cents
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9 minutes ago, my two cents said:

Also anonymous but something to consider: 

The signs are happening in such rapid succession, there can be no doubt we are in the last few years.  We know He will come and work on the earth helping to build the New Jerusalem and be in Adam Ondi-Ahman and the Old Jerusalem several years before he officially comes in His Glory.

I'm not an expert or here to convince anyone of anything. I also realize people are at different levels of readiness for this information but again, there are people studying and paying attention and noticing the subtle warnings Church leaders have and are giving. 

I will also be the first to admit I am probably a little too far the other direction.  Growing up in Texas, where all of the protestant fundies are always setting (and missing) dates for the end of the world (Y2K, Harold Camping, and December 23, 2012 all caused moderate instances of hysteria and/or panic in these parts) can cause you to become a little callous to the whole thing.  But I am certainly always open to listening to various Mormon perspectives on the Second Coming.

 

Edited by DoctorLemon
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9 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

I will also be the first to admit I am probably a little too far the other direction.  Growing up in Texas, where all of the protestant fundies are always setting (and missing) dates for the end of the world (Y2K, Harold Camping, and December 23, 2012 all caused moderate instances of hysteria and/or panic in these parts) can cause you to become a little callous to the whole thing.  But I am certainly always open to listening to various Mormon perspectives on the Second Coming.

 

I'm no expert but Matthew 24:36 comes to mind.  

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9 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

I will also be the first to admit I am probably a little too far the other direction.  Growing up in Texas, where all of the protestant fundies are always setting (and missing) dates for the end of the world (Y2K, Harold Camping, and December 23, 2012 all caused moderate instances of hysteria and/or panic in these parts) can cause you to become a little callous to the whole thing.

I get that but when the wife of the president of the quorum of the 12 is saying this at a worldwide devotional, it should get people's attention:

"So, now a question as I conclude: What if you learned that the Savior had already returned to this earth—that He, as part of His Second Coming, had already met with some of His true followers in several marvelous, large gatherings13—gatherings about which the world, including CNN and the blogosphere, knew nothing. If you found out that the Savior was already on the earth, what would you desperately want to do today, and what would you be willing and ready to do tomorrow?"

- Wendy Watson Nelson, An Evening with President Russell M. Nelson Worldwide Devotional for Young Adults • January 10, 2016 • Brigham Young University–Hawaii

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6 hours ago, DoctorLemon said:

But I am certainly always open to listening to various Mormon perspectives on the Second Coming.

Just noticed your edit. You may want to check out nofearpreps.com for more info. (a good resource but not where the anon quotes came from - just fyi)

Edited by my two cents
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Hmm, a few things here. One of my friends who is a lawyer for the church worked out the Roman Calendar days (there were only 350 days in the Roman calendar so every decade the seasons were reversed in Rome) and the year the globe ceased using the Roman Calendar. He then worked out the leap years and a few other miracles where the sun/moon were stopped. He then factored in the prophecy that Christ would come at the end of the 4,000 years and then there'd be 2,000 years before the beginning of the seventh... now, if you work it all out -and I can't show you his math because I don't have it here with me-  it places the beginning of the 7,000 at the year 2027-2028.

What I also found interesting was that President Hinckley in London in 1987 was interviewed for the Church News and asked why 'the church's lease on Hyde Park Chapel runs out in 2036 and the church has no provisions to renew the lease of the most expensive piece of real estate the church is holding?' Pres Hinckley replied in print that "The savior would be returning long before then". You can find that quote for yourself in the Church news of the era.

What I don't get though is that in one of the recent firesides, the congregation were told 'the clock's hand had moved' and it was "only one minute until midnight". Given that back in the 80's we were being told it was two minutes to midnight, it would put the year of the Saviors return in the 2030's. Yeah, the clock metaphor is obviously an imprecise measurement, I know. 

And before someone screams "no man shall know the date", a date is a day, not a year. All we know of the date is that it is on 'HIS DAY'. Does that mean his birthday or the day of his resurrection, or perhaps the anniversary of the day of atonement?

 

Oh, and I forgot to mention there's a revelation from Joseph Smith relating to Matt 24 where we are told that the Lord returns in a year without rainbows globally- it's not that the symbol of the promise (the rainbow itself) is removed but the scripture points to there being no rain as it's a time of global famine. So, you would still be able to create a rainbow with a squirt from your garden hose however, you may not have the water to waste like that- according to revelations, one third of the sea will be dead after a massive volcano around the same time.

 

Edited by Alex
lard & pancakes
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4 hours ago, Alex said:

Oh, and I forgot to mention there's a revelation from Joseph Smith relating to Matt 24 where we are told that the Lord returns in a year without rainbows globally- it's not that the symbol of the promise (the rainbow itself) is removed but the scripture points to there being no rain as it's a time of global famine. So, you would still be able to create a rainbow with a squirt from your garden hose however, you may not have the water to waste like that- according to revelations, one third of the sea will be dead after a massive volcano around the same time.

 

In my post above I said it was 41.66 years, that was a mistake as it was taking 1000/24, it would actually be 20.8333 years for a half hour if we take it literally (as two cents posted above already).  Of course, that doesn't change that it could also be symbolically, and thus even if the year 2000 did open the 7th seal, we would have no idea what the year would be.  Of interest, no man knows the hour or day, but we have some really clear indicators from Revelations and other books.  We know that there will be temple built (which I'm still waiting for) and that two prophets will be sent to the Jews who will be there for around 1000 days...and then they will be slain.  If we watch and see these, we will then know almost the exact day because we know how long they will approximately lie in the street and then they'll be raised and the Second Coming will be at hand as Jerusalem is overrun (I think that's how it's written).  The people will be fleeing and the Lord will appear as their Savior, they'll ask about the wounds in his hands and feet and then after he answers, I believe they carry him to the temple.

On the above, I have heard the rainbow thing before.  I've never read the source document on it though.  Are we certain that's a Joseph Smith thing though, I could swear that I've also read or heard about it from other religious commentary on the second coming and such.

Edited by JohnsonJones
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16 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

Well, after the seventh seal opens I believe there is supposed to be 30 minutes of silence from heaven.  Postulation would indicate that this is a period where nothing is really heard from above...which could be interesting in regards to LDS modern thoughts on the matter.  It could be that individuals can receive revelation but no one actually hears directly or is visited directly???

However, if one does the math it also indicates that if we are using a LITERAL translation that would mean we have to wait around 41 2/3 years before the actual second coming in that regards...though in truth the half hour of silence could be symbolic.

I find it interesting all those that claimed the second coming in the year 2000, because as per the scriptures, even if we take them literally, we still had the half hour of silence after that, if I recall right.

I think the key in understanding the half hour of silence is to consider it in the context in which it is given. In Revelations 8 John the Revelator starts off by saying that the seventh seal is opened with a half hour of silence. He then goes on to say that after the half hour of silence angels will begin to blow seven trumpets in succession, each bringing some sort of destruction or calamity in order to cleanse the earth preparing it for the Second Coming. So the silence would seem to be a period of time at the beginning of the seventh seal before the trumpets sound and the destruction begins. Silence = no trumpets sounding. My guess is that this is a preparatory period for us to get done whatever we need to get done. Could that be the reason for the hastening? Maybe. The one problem with the half hour of silence is that there is no definitive event to let us know when it has begun, unless the Prophet reveals it I guess. Maybe there is another way to know but I don't know it. I'm torn over whether the half hour means a set period of time like the 20.833 years or if it just means a relatively short period of time.

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14 hours ago, DoctorLemon said:

You have my interest.  Please explain!

The Lord actually makes several appearances. As I understand it the first will be at Adam-ondi-Ahman to designated Church leaders. Then at Jerusalem to save the Jews from their enemies and then the official Second Coming to all the world. These events are not necessarily close together though. For example, as I understand it it will be after the Savior's appearance at Jerusalem that the gospel will be taken to the heathen nations. To me this makes a lot of sense. If you consider the Jew's enemies consisting to a large degree of non-Christian people such as from the Middle-East and Asia and they see a Heavenly Being save their enemy the Jews. How many people on both sides of the battle are actually converted and then return home to share the gospel in their homelands? And how many years does this take to spread the gospel to all the people in these nations? Could be a while. My point is that the official Second Coming may actually be quite a ways off but that doesn't mean some very interesting events aren't getting very near.

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If I had to guess I would say that we will experience something like the Nephites and Lamanites did where they were all converted at the sign of Jesus' birth because the evidence was so great. After Jesus' appearance in Jerusalem all the world is going to know what happened. There will be a huge rush to know the truth but after a while people will begin to lose interest and return to their wicked ways. They will then be left without excuse when the Savior comes. But that's what He wants, a world full of people who have made an educated decision on where they stand. Just my opinion though on how things transpire.

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1 hour ago, laronius said:

The Lord actually makes several appearances. As I understand it the first will be at Adam-ondi-Ahman to designated Church leaders. Then at Jerusalem to save the Jews from their enemies and then the official Second Coming to all the world. These events are not necessarily close together though. For example, as I understand it it will be after the Savior's appearance at Jerusalem that the gospel will be taken to the heathen nations. To me this makes a lot of sense. If you consider the Jew's enemies consisting to a large degree of non-Christian people such as from the Middle-East and Asia and they see a Heavenly Being save their enemy the Jews. How many people on both sides of the battle are actually converted and then return home to share the gospel in their homelands? And how many years does this take to spread the gospel to all the people in these nations? Could be a while. My point is that the official Second Coming may actually be quite a ways off but that doesn't mean some very interesting events aren't getting very near.

Good insights!

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The 7th seal is the one at the front with his mouth open. The 7th seal opens up with someone offers fish or if they approach to close. The 6th seal is the one with his back turned to us and the one lieing down is the 8th seal that John was about to write about when his fountain pen ran out of ink. If John had used a proper pen instead of a fountain pen we would have had more of the gospel and Revelations would not be so hard to understand.

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