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    • Heather

      Mormon Hub Rules - Please be familiar with these rules before posting   04/17/08

        Any views expressed on Mormon Hub are independent of and do not represent the views of Mormon Hub, More Good Foundation, or Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Site Rules 1. Do not post, upload, or otherwise submit anything to the site that is derogatory towards The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, its teachings, or its leaders. Anti-LDS Propaganda will not be tolerated anywhere. 2. Please be conscious of the fact that although Mormon Hub is aimed towards an LDS audience, that the membership of this site consists of friends from an array of different backgrounds, beliefs, and cultures. Please be respectful and courteous to all, and know that everyone who is willing to follow the Rules and Terms of Mormon Hub are welcome to participate and be a member of Mormon Hub. Keep in mind that anything posted, uploaded, or otherwise displayed on the site should be understandable to friends of other faiths as well as to members. Please define any LDS vocabulary that friends of other faiths may not understand (i.e. Mutual, Relief Society, and Deacon.) 3. Personal attacks, name calling, flaming, and judgments against other members will not be tolerated. 4. No bickering and nit-picking toward others. Realize that sometimes it is very difficult to be able to express how one feels through written words. Please be courteous and ask for a further explanation, rather then trying to attack and find holes in someone else's post. 5. No cursing or crude language. Any swearing, including filter skipping, will result in an automatic one week suspension. 6. Posting issues you have with a moderator or administrator anywhere on the site will not be allowed. Please follow the chain of authority if you have any concerns. Any such posts will be removed and the poster will be subject to the consequences of breaking the rules. List of site moderators Course of action that should be taken if you have a concern: - Send a message directly to the moderator you have a concern about. If you are unable to work out the problem then, - Send a message to the head moderators. - If after you have approached both avenues, you may then send a message to Heather; however know that Heather is very unlikely to over rule anything that has been sanctioned by the moderators and head moderators. 7. Multiple accounts are not allowed and will result in all accounts being banned from the site. 8. Please do not share any "true" or "faith promoting" stories, unless you can verify the source. 9. Do not post any copyrighted material, unless the copyright is owned by you. 10. Bigoted/racial/ethnic comments will not be tolerated. Political Neutrality Policy More Good Foundation, as a nonprofit foundation, must remain neutral with respect to partisan politics and candidate campaigns for public office. The foundation encourages its members and staff to be informed about political issues and to be engaged in civic life; however, it does not endorse or oppose any political parties, candidates, or platforms. Mormon Hub will allow political discussion, also long as all posts remain neutral with respect to partisan politics and candidate campaigns for public office. You may not use the site to show support, endorse, oppose or sanction any candidate. In addition, all posts must be respectful and sensitive to readers of all political beliefs and backgrounds. Any post that violates any of the above conditions will be dealt with according to the consequences of breaking the rules. As a non-profit organization, 501©3, we are governed by legal constraints relative to writing, blogging, or otherwise endorsing any candidate running for political office. The law states, in effect, that no one acting on behalf of the nonprofit can intervene directly or indirectly in the election process by endorsing a political candidate. Any post that speaks favorably about one candidate, even in a religious context, can be construed as indirect intervention in the election process. While journalists are presently exempt from this provision, bloggers and forum-members are not. 12. You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this site to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law. 13. You will not use this site to solicit the sale of any product, service or website. You will not use this site to promote a money making venture or contest. 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Any topic, message, video, music, image, or other upload or submission to the site that breaks any rules will be deleted. Please remember that we are not responsible for anything posted or uploaded. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message or upload. We are not responsible for the contents of any message, video, image, post or upload. The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Mormon Hub , More Good Foundation, or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact the Administration immediately by Private Message, Email, or Report a Post. We will make every effort to remove objectionable messages and uploads within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary. 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    • rpframe

      IMPORTANT!! -- Login Issues   09/12/17

      TL;DR; In order to fix login issues, a lot of people will have to reset their password. As of now, if you are unable to login, please attempt a "Forgot Password"/"Password Reset" (check your spam folder) and if that doesn't work then feel free to Contact Us, for help and please check back on this post for any status updates and FAQs as we go through this process. FAQ:
      [Reserved Space]
      Firstly, I'd like to apologize on behalf of MormonHub for the frustration of the login system. There is a lot of cool things we could do with the login system, and having the logins synced up between our forum system and our front end system has been nice, but for multiple reasons (not just the current login issues), we have decided to move back to the earlier login system. While I would love to be able to migrate everyone's current passwords back, but the systems are just not compatible that way. So a large number of users will need to do a password reset. We realize that we forced everyone to do this on the move to the new system, and we sincerely apologize to everyone that will have to do it again. The Login System has now been swapped over. Give us a little bit of time to work out kinks in the system (will post updates here). If you are unable to login anymore, then please perform a password reset (check spam folder) and if that fails and we don't have any acknowledgement of problems on this post (No known problems at this time), then feel free to contact us (keeping in mind that there are a lot of you and very few of us).
zil

Can evil spirits read?

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So, in RS today, we were on chapter 23 of the Gordon B. Hinckley manual, about temple work.  Part of the discussion was what keeps you from going / how to get better at going.  There followed the usual comment and agreement about how everything seems to go wrong just before your planned trip to the temple (a kid gets sick, the car breaks, work calls, the lights flicker in weird patterns, the dishwasher starts spinning in circles, the microwave levitates off the counter, whatever1). 

Anywho, one woman related that she and her husband have agreed that they just won't talk about it - they pick a date/time, write it on the calendar and then literally don't talk about it, especially not the day of - they just get ready, get in the car and go, all without word one as to what they're doing / where they're going.  And in their experience, this minimizes / eliminates all those things which suddenly come up to keep them from going.

This made me wonder (perhaps snarkily), so, what, the evil spirits to whom the interference is attributed can't read?  Or maybe they don't understand the calendar?

What do you think?

1Some of those might not be actual examples related by sisters in RS.

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I think its all overhyped. I have seen the opposite. When I want to go to the temple things line up, life gets easy, etc. I think almost all Mormons get caught up in the business of their lives that those same obstacles happen in all of their events day to day but its only the spiritual ones that get remembered. Just as there are devils to hedge up the way there are also angels before us to prepare the way. Why angels? To break down the devils hedges.

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7 hours ago, zil said:

So, in RS today, we were on chapter 23 of the Gordon B. Hinckley manual, about temple work.  Part of the discussion was what keeps you from going / how to get better at going.  There followed the usual comment and agreement about how everything seems to go wrong just before your planned trip to the temple (a kid gets sick, the car breaks, work calls, the lights flicker in weird patterns, the dishwasher starts spinning in circles, the microwave levitates off the counter, whatever1). 

Anywho, one woman related that she and her husband have agreed that they just won't talk about it - they pick a date/time, write it on the calendar and then literally don't talk about it, especially not the day of - they just get ready, get in the car and go, all without word one as to what they're doing / where they're going.  And in their experience, this minimizes / eliminates all those things which suddenly come up to keep them from going.

This made me wonder (perhaps snarkily), so, what, the evil spirits to whom the interference is attributed can't read?  Or maybe they don't understand the calendar?

What do you think?

1Some of those might not be actual examples related by sisters in RS.

I also wonder “can Satan make us sick” or “can he break our car?” And “Can Satan kill my grandma He day before I get baptized”. 

I’ve seen this time and time again and often time believe that it is God testing us and not Satan.

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17 minutes ago, Fether said:

I can relate but in a different sense. I never once baptized a person in my mission that didn’t have a crisis the week before their baptism. Also lost a lot of people a week before their baptisms too.

I think some people here said the Adversary would try to stop my baptism. Please. I don't function at the whim of some spirit. Why do LDS (and some other Protestant groups) get all worried about the devil? God and Jesus have more power than evil. I focus on them. And if I get sick or in an accident (or have an $800 car repair bill, donations accepted...), it's because I was exposed to germs, or a woman hit me in the parking lot, or my 12 yr old car will need repairs sometimes, it's not because of Satan. Good grief. 

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4 minutes ago, dahlia said:

I think some people here said the Adversary would try to stop my baptism. Please. I don't function at the whim of some spirit. Why do LDS (and some other Protestant groups) get all worried about the devil? God and Jesus have more power than evil. I focus on them. And if I get sick or in an accident (or have an $800 car repair bill, donations accepted...), it's because I was exposed to germs, or a woman hit me in the parking lot, or my 12 yr old car will need repairs sometimes, it's not because of Satan. Good grief. 

I tend to agree with you.  I think Satan's role is primarily that of "really sleazy advertiser" - he takes evil and makes it look more attractive than it is.  If he weren't around, we would still have the choice between good and evil, but perhaps the choice would be more obvious in many circumstances (which may very much support that hypothesis that I hate, that this Earth is the wickedest of all Earths - maybe the difference is Satan is here, making wickedness look more attractive).

I do think Satan can interfere physically in very rare and unusual instances (e.g., making Joseph sick before the first vision), but this is not the norm and we should be aware, but not scared of, Satan.

Edited by DoctorLemon

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In the time leading up to my endowments, my life began to fall apart. My ward is really stretched so trying to get anything arranged is a killer. My official temple is a 4.5 hour drive away. I ignored the murmurings from the RS sisters of ‘You can’t go by yourself’. I just made an appointment and got in the car and drove. When I got back, I got a lot of ‘What! You went all by yourself?’ But if I had waited for someone to be free to go with me, Satan probably would have completely destroyed my entire life! 

I think Satan exists and he hates people going to the temple. 

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I was having a little fun with the OP (should be obvious), and I have no idea whether spirits just automatically know (seems inconsistent) every language of this earth, including how to read it, or go to school for it, or what.  I just thought it was an interesting thought.  But I agree with @Sunday21 - Satan doesn't want us in the temple.  Whether his efforts to interfere consist only of making suggestions to discourage us, or suggestions to other people which would lead them to interfere, or something else, I have no idea, but I don't dismiss the possibility entirely.  And while I think God allows coincidence and Satan to interfere with our efforts, I don't think He does anything to interfere himself.

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1 minute ago, zil said:

I have no idea whether spirits just automatically know (seems inconsistent) every language of this earth, including how to read it, or go to school for it, or what.

I figure they've been around for a really long time. It doesn't seem unrealistic for them to have just naturally adapted to various languages as they (the languages) evolved.

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32 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

I think Satan exists and he hates people going to the temple. 

I think Satan exists because so many people demand someone to blame for all their problems.  After all, they need an excuse to feel super special when the car breaks down or they catch a cold.

 

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7 hours ago, zil said:

So, in RS today, we were on chapter 23 of the Gordon B. Hinckley manual, about temple work.  Part of the discussion was what keeps you from going / how to get better at going.  There followed the usual comment and agreement about how everything seems to go wrong just before your planned trip to the temple (a kid gets sick, the car breaks, work calls, the lights flicker in weird patterns, the dishwasher starts spinning in circles, the microwave levitates off the counter, whatever1). 

Anywho, one woman related that she and her husband have agreed that they just won't talk about it - they pick a date/time, write it on the calendar and then literally don't talk about it, especially not the day of - they just get ready, get in the car and go, all without word one as to what they're doing / where they're going.  And in their experience, this minimizes / eliminates all those things which suddenly come up to keep them from going.

This made me wonder (perhaps snarkily), so, what, the evil spirits to whom the interference is attributed can't read?  Or maybe they don't understand the calendar?

What do you think?

1Some of those might not be actual examples related by sisters in RS.

 

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5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

 

Apparently he reads Psalms...

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1 hour ago, Fether said:

I also wonder “can Satan make us sick” or “can he break our car?” And “Can Satan kill my grandma He day before I get baptized”. 

I’ve seen this time and time again and often time believe that it is God testing us and not Satan.

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Are the people striving to do right? Yes, they are. It has been observed that we are pretty clear from those unruly spirits that have been in our midst. So we are; but you need not flatter yourselves for a moment that the Devil has left us. You will find that he marshals his forces more particularly against this people; and if we are now clear from those unhallowed spirits and the tabernacles they occupied, you may expect that he will, if possible, find somebody here in whom he can have a resting place. You will learn that the wicked disembodied spirits have not left this people, though the most of those wicked persons who sought to destroy the Saints have left us. There are myriads of disembodied evil spirits—those who have long ago laid down their bodies here and in the regions round about, among and around us; and they are trying to make us and our children sick, and are trying to destroy us and to tempt us to evil. Brigham Young JD 6:73

 

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What is the condition of the wicked?  They are in prison.  Are they happy?  No.  They have stepped through the veil, to the place where the veil of the covering is taken from their understanding.  They fully understand that they have persecuted the just and Holy One, and they feel the wrath of the Almighty resting upon them, having a terrible foreboding of the final consummation of their just sentence, to become angels to the devil; just as it is in this world, precisely. Has the devil power to afflict, and cast the spirit into torment?  No!  We have gained the ascendancy over him.  It is in this world only he has power to cause affliction and sickness, pain and distress, sorrow, anguish, and disappointment; but when we go there, behold! the enemy of Jesus has come to the end of his chain; he has finished his work of torment; he cannot come any further; we are beyond his reach, and the righteous sleep in peace, while the spirit is anxiously looking forward to the day when the Lord will say, “Awake my Saints, you have slept long enough;” for the trump of God shall sound, and the sleeping dust shall arise, and the absent spirits return, to be united with their bodies; and they will become personages of tabernacle, like the Father, and His Son, Jesus Christ; yea Gods in eternity. Brigham Young JD 3:95

 

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I will relate one circumstance that took place at Far West, in a house that Joseph had purchased, which had been formerly occupied as a public house by some wicked people. A short time after he got into it, one of his children was taken very sick; he laid his hands upon the child, when it got better; as soon as he went out of doors, the child was taken sick again; he again laid his hands upon it, so that it again recovered.  This occurred several times, when Joseph inquired of the Lord what it all meant; then he had an open vision, and saw the devil in person, who contended with Joseph, face to face, for some time. He said it was his house, it belonged to him, and Joseph had no right there. Then Joseph rebuked Satan in the name of the Lord, and he departed and touched the child no more. Life of Heber C. Kimball Pg. 270

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59 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

In the time leading up to my endowments, my life began to fall apart. My ward is really stretched so trying to get anything arranged is a killer. My official temple is a 4.5 hour drive away. I ignored the murmurings from the RS sisters of ‘You can’t go by yourself’. I just made an appointment and got in the car and drove. When I got back, I got a lot of ‘What! You went all by yourself?’ But if I had waited for someone to be free to go with me, Satan probably would have completely destroyed my entire life! 

I think Satan exists and he hates people going to the temple. 

 

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We have now commenced to prepare for the building of a Temple; the ground has been staked out and broken; does not the devil know it? Yes; he knows all about it, and there could not be a thing- to displease him more than for this people to talk about a Temple, to say nothing about going to work to build one. Did it not always stir up the devil? It was so in Kirtland, Missouri, and Illinois; and will it not be so in the City of the Great Salt Lake? It will. Are you not glad of it? You ought to be. Why? Because it is impossible to do anything, to any great extant, without an opposite. This is strictly according to the experience we have had. We must have an opposite, it must needs be that there is an opposite in all things to square us up, and make us ready to become useful in all things. I am glad of it, myself. What is required of us to do? Why, just do right, and all is right; -what an easy lesson.. Can you have any enjoyment without an opposite? We hear a good deal said about making sugar; but I tell you. It is impossible to make sugar enough to make everything sweat. There is plenty of sweet, and there is also plenty of bitter. There must be an opposite, and it is all right. (Ezra T. Benson,  of Opposition,” Journal of Discourses, II (1855), 348.)

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44 minutes ago, zil said:

I was having a little fun with the OP (should be obvious), and I have no idea whether spirits just automatically know (seems inconsistent) every language of this earth, including how to read it, or go to school for it, or what.  I just thought it was an interesting thought.  But I agree with @Sunday21 - Satan doesn't want us in the temple.  Whether his efforts to interfere consist only of making suggestions to discourage us, or suggestions to other people which would lead them to interfere, or something else, I have no idea, but I don't dismiss the possibility entirely.  And while I think God allows coincidence and Satan to interfere with our efforts, I don't think He does anything to interfere himself.

 

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Many spirits of the departed, who are unhappy, linger in lonely wretchedness about the earth, and in the air, and especially about their ancient homesteads, and the places rendered dear to them by the memory of former scenes. The more-wicked of these are the kind spoken of in Scripture, as "foul spirits," "unclean spirits," spirits who afflict persons in the flesh, and engender various diseases in the human system.They will sometimes enter human bodies, and will distract them, throw them into fits, cast them into the water, into the fire, etc. They will trouble them with dreams, nightmare, hysterics, fever, etc. They will also deform them in body and in features, by convulsions, cramps, contortions, etc., and will sometimes compel them to utter blasphemies, horrible curses, and even words of other languages. If permitted, they will often cause death.

 

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1 hour ago, dahlia said:

I think some people here said the Adversary would try to stop my baptism. Please. I don't function at the whim of some spirit. Why do LDS (and some other Protestant groups) get all worried about the devil? God and Jesus have more power than evil. I focus on them. And if I get sick or in an accident (or have an $800 car repair bill, donations accepted...), it's because I was exposed to germs, or a woman hit me in the parking lot, or my 12 yr old car will need repairs sometimes, it's not because of Satan. Good grief. 

This is my default position. As a general rule, I don't believe in ghosts or that the devil made me do it.

But I maintain some skepticism with regard to my own beliefs in such matters. Previous generations took evil spirits and demonic possession with great seriousness, and while I tend to wave away ideas like that, a part of my mind says, "What if they weren't simply being superstitious and ignorant? What if they were onto something?"

I don't know what the greatest weakness of our generation is, but a good guess would be hubris. We are absolutely convinced that we are so much smarter, more intellectual, more scientific,  more cosmopolitan, and far more sophisticated than any of our ancestors. We say patently stupid things like, "What, you trust the ravings of Bronze Age shepherds?" For us moderns, Presentism is less an ignorant vice and more a sacred article of faith that we recite at the altar of our great god Science (or Reason or Humanism or whatever other golden calf we kneel before).

So a part of my brain refuses to accept the easy, smug, self-satisfied response that it's all superstition. Maybe it's not all superstition. Maybe it's us that are stupid, not our ancestors.

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2 minutes ago, Vort said:

This is my default position. As a general rule, I don't believe in ghosts or that the devil made me do it.

But I maintain some skepticism with regard to my own beliefs in such matters. Previous generations took evil spirits and demonic possession with great seriousness, and while I tend to wave away ideas like that, a part of my mind says, "What if they weren't simply being superstitious and ignorant? What if they were onto something?"

I don't know what the greatest weakness of our generation is, but a good guess would be hubris. We are absolutely convinced that we are so much smarter, more intellectual, more scientific,  more cosmopolitan, and far more sophisticated than any of our ancestors. We say patently stupid things like, "What, you trust the ravings of Bronze Age shepherds?" For us moderns, Presentism is less an ignorant vice and more a sacred article of faith that we recite at the altar of our great god Science (or Reason or Humanism or whatever other golden calf we kneel before).

So a part of my brain refuses to accept the easy, smug, self-satisfied response that it's all superstition. Maybe it's not all superstition. Maybe it's us that are stupid, not our ancestors.

 

 

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Or who can drag into daylight and develop the hidden mysteries of the false spirits that so frequently are made manifest among the Latter-day Saints?We answer that no man can do this without the Priesthood, and having a knowledge of the laws by which spirits are governed; for as no man knows the things of God, but by the Spirit of God, so no man knows the spirit of the devil, and his power and influence, but by possessing intelligence which is more than human, and having unfolded through the medium of the Priesthood the mysteries operations of his devices; without knowing the angelic form, the sanctified look and gesture, and the zeal that is frequently manifested by him for the glory of God, together with the prophetic spirit, the gracious influence, the godly appearance, and the holy garb, which are so characteristic of his proceedings and his mysterious windings.

A man must have the discerning of spirits before he can drag into daylight this hellish influence and unfold it unto the world in all its soul-destroying, diabolical, and horrid colors; for nothing is a greater injury to the children of men than to be under the influence of a false spirit when they think they have the Spirit of God. (Joseph Smith, Try the Spirits)

 

 

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To be clear: I completely believe that evil spirits exist and that they exert some sort of influence on us. What I tend to disbelieve is the facile excuse that when we get sick or feel angry or have bad breath or zits, it's evil spirits that are afflicting us. But the fact is, I really don't know how such things work, so I would not be utterly shocked to learn that at least some illnesses or (especially) mental or emotional disorders are rooted in the influences of evil spirits. I don't believe it, but I don't necessarily entirely disbelieve the possibility.

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I profess myself somewhat surprised that there is not more experience mentioned or alluded to in the case of evil spirits in our lives. It is a subject that Joseph Smith was very concerned that the Saints should be informed of, for fear that their ignorance would see them taken advantage of.  I have always appreciated this quote by Jedediah Grant:

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I am aware that even some of the Latter-day Saints are slow to believe in relation to the power of Lucifer, the son of the morning, who was thrust from the heavens to the earth; and they have been slow to believe in relation to the spirits that are associated with him; but from the first revelations of the Almighty to brother Joseph Smith, not only revelations in relation to the deep things of the kingdom of God, and the high things of heaven, and the depths of hell, but revelations showing him the power of Lucifer, the opposite to good, that he might be aware of the strength of his opponent, and the opponent of the Almighty—I say, from perusing these revelations, I have always been specially impressed with the doctrine relating to the power of Satan, as well as with the doctrines relating to the power of God. I have always felt that no Saint fully comprehends the power of Satan as well as God's Prophet; and again I have thought that no Saint could fully understand the power of God unless he learn the opposite. I am not myself acquainted with any happiness that I have not learned the opposite of. Elder Jedediah M. Grant JD 2:11

 

This sentiment that there is a relationship between an individuals personal spiritual growth and their grasp on understanding the nature of Satan and his efforts and abilities is commonly attested to in the words of the prophets:

Consider these words by Brigham Young:

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I ask, Is there a reason for men and women being exposed more constantly and more powerfully, to the power of the enemy, by having visions than by not having them? There is and it is simply this -- God never bestows upon his people, or upon an individual, superior blessings without a severe trial to prove them, to prove that individual, or that people, to see whether they will keep their covenants with him, and keep in remembrance what he has shown them. Then the greater the vision, the greater the display of the power of the enemy.

So when individuals are blessed with visions, revelations, and great manifestations, look out, then the Devil is nigh you, and you will be tempted in proportion to the visions, revelation, or manifestation you have received. 3:205-206.

 

While this is a subject that I have studied at length, the study was compelled by virtue of the increase in malevolent events that began to occur in my life many years ago.  I have thus had a great deal of experience in dealing with these types of events in my life, the life of family, and those who have called me into their homes to address various and sundry activities.  I do not go into detail in public arenas but I simply want to add my witness that this is an issue where our ignorance will only provide greater advantage to the adversary.

Edited by brlenox

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2 hours ago, dahlia said:

I think some people here said the Adversary would try to stop my baptism. Please. I don't function at the whim of some spirit. Why do LDS (and some other Protestant groups) get all worried about the devil? God and Jesus have more power than evil. I focus on them. And if I get sick or in an accident (or have an $800 car repair bill, donations accepted...), it's because I was exposed to germs, or a woman hit me in the parking lot, or my 12 yr old car will need repairs sometimes, it's not because of Satan. Good grief. 

There is a principle alluded to in the Book of Job:

 

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Job 1:8-10

8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

9 Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

 

The concept of there being a hedge about the righteous as a protective measure from God is a significant principle. If we explore further in the Job experience I think we can safely say that you are correct spirits are not permitted to operate in our lives at their whim and fancy.  However, that they are permitted to try us and afflict us is also well evidence in the Job scenario that takes place in the Old Testament.  The principles of that interaction are governed by laws and regulations or surely none would survive Satan's efforts to destroy. However, the Lord does permit, on conditions, the degree and nature of Satan's influence and ability to interfere in the lives of the righteous.  It is typical that those who are sincerely active and focused on establishing the Kingdom of God and in bettering themselves through righteous endeavors will find themselves negotiating Satan and his followers in increasingly more pronounced ways.

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This is a VERY dark topic.

I believe people do not understand the full power of the adversary.  He is FAR more powerful than most give him attribute, and does far more harm than many realize. 

Let's look at it somewhat semi-logically.  Do you believe a loving Father would create sickness and ailments?  I do not believe this, but I also think he would NOT STOP these things from being created by the enemy.  I think he extends his love and protection to those that love him, but when they do not as he says and do not love him, he is not able to protect them as much as he would previously.   It has been addressed many times (and brlenox posted just a few of those above) that it is the adversary that creates these illnesses, ailments, and other evils.  Did you not realize that even spirits have the power to create for good or for evil.  We, as spirits, before this life were literally the children of our father and as such had powers and abilities granted to us by that birthright.  As such, we helped in the creation of this earth and had at our fingertips the power to create if we so chose in our agency.  As all agency, we have the ability to use this power for good in following the righteous desires of our hearts and the commands of our Father and his Eldest Son, or to do evil instead in rebellion.

The adversary still has power, and still does immense evils to mankind upon this earth who he hates.  in addition...We have this directly from the Lord via revelation....

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13 And now, behold, for your good I gave unto you a commandment concerning these things; and I, the Lord, will reason with you as with men in days of old.

14 Behold, I, the Lord, in the beginning blessed the waters; but in the last days, by the mouth of my servant John, I cursed the waters.

15 Wherefore, the days will come that no flesh shall be safe upon the waters.

16 And it shall be said in days to come that none is able to go up to the land of Zion upon the waters, but he that is upright in heart.

17 And, as I, the Lord, in the beginning cursed the land, even so in the last days have I blessed it, in its time, for the use of my saints, that they may partake the fatness thereof.

18 And now I give unto you a commandment that what I say unto one I say unto all, that you shall forewarn your brethren concerning these waters, that they come not in journeying upon them, lest their faith fail and they are caught in snares;

19 I, the Lord, have decreed, and the destroyer rideth upon the face thereof, and I revoke not the decree.

The following is a personal story which is very sad.  There was a young man who was ready to go on his mission.  He received his papers and was due to go shortly.  He liked to go surfing quite a bit, and decided he would go surfing one last time before his mission.  It was a beautiful day and the surf was supposed to be calmer than normal from what I hear.  However, as he was not far out, suddenly he was taken under the water and did not reappear.  That young man died that day.  It was revealed to us that it was the hand of the adversary that took this young man at that time, though it was allowed by the Lord, it was the adversary who did so (I suppose the young man had a great mission on the other side of the veil in this instance).  It was reiterated that the Adversary has great power over the waters, and it is a reason why we do not wish to have missionaries tempt that power.

There are a great many evils in this world perpetuated by the adversary, and even as we saw with the savior who suffered and died a physical death, even if the adversary can do us GREAT physical harm, he ultimately is overcome by the Savior who resurrected and atoned for all men in his perfection.  Even as the Adversary can wound us and even bruise our heel, we can bruise his head (overcome him completely).  He may be able to affect us physically to some degree (though the Lord also protects us), but he cannot overcome our spirit without our consent.

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15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.  Gen: 3:15

As per the original question, yes, undoubtedly he can read in my opinion (and it is just that, an opinion).  That said, I think in some instances when we talk more about it, focus more on the temple trip or trying to do certain ordinances he will see this increased activity and focus and hence will increase his efforts to dissuade us.  He may even be able to do harm to us to try to prevent that, however, if we have faith, ultimately, just as Genesis states, we can overcome and achieve our goal.  It may not be easy, and for us alone it may even be impossible in some instances, but with the LORD's help, we can overcome him completely eventually. 

It does not always happen to all of us, nor is it something that always occurs, but is something that CAN occur.  I think it happens to many missionaries when they are about to have a baptism at times, where the adversary will come in to try to stop that from occurring.  I think this can be especially prevalent when the individual is the first of their family line and would be a strong and faithful member.  This is not just that individual, but their entire family the adversary is at war with, for if that individual is converted, baptized and remains strong, they are thus a means for all their countless ancestors to be redeemed.  As many a missionary has observed at times, especially in these situation, much happens that seems to try to stop the individual, to dissuade them.  However, if that individual continues in faith (and sometimes it happens and sometimes it does not), this trial may make them stronger in their faith in the end, and through prayer and this faith (and hopefully on the missionaries part as well) they can overcome all that is tossed against them and receive the ordinance of baptism, the gift of the Holy Ghost and membership into the church of the Lord.

Anyways, this is, as I said, a very dark topic.  One of the easiest ways to get the spirit of darkness upon you is to talk about dark things, and hence, though longwinded, hopefully this will be all that I really will write on this topic at this time.

Edited by JohnsonJones

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10 hours ago, dahlia said:

I think some people here said the Adversary would try to stop my baptism. Please. I don't function at the whim of some spirit. Why do LDS (and some other Protestant groups) get all worried about the devil? God and Jesus have more power than evil. I focus on them. And if I get sick or in an accident (or have an $800 car repair bill, donations accepted...), it's because I was exposed to germs, or a woman hit me in the parking lot, or my 12 yr old car will need repairs sometimes, it's not because of Satan. Good grief. 

Regardless it happens. I was in charge of a large amount of missionaries in an area and without fail, one week before their baptism some family member died, they got in a car accident the day of their confirmation or even on their way to the baptism (both happened), got anti’d, parents got a divorce, etc.

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