Can evil spirits read?


zil
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9 hours ago, brlenox said:

Consider these words by Brigham Young:

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I ask, Is there a reason for men and women being exposed more constantly and more powerfully, to the power of the enemy, by having visions than by not having them? There is and it is simply this -- God never bestows upon his people, or upon an individual, superior blessings without a severe trial to prove them, to prove that individual, or that people, to see whether they will keep their covenants with him, and keep in remembrance what he has shown them. Then the greater the vision, the greater the display of the power of the enemy.

So when individuals are blessed with visions, revelations, and great manifestations, look out, then the Devil is nigh you, and you will be tempted in proportion to the visions, revelation, or manifestation you have received. 3:205-206.

 

While I'm not willing to say with any certainty the extent of the influence of evil spirits in any given life or instance, I'm certain they do exert what influence they are allowed to exert, and I am certain of the truth of above quote from Brigham Young.

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Ol' Scratch is pretty smart. While he may not understand everything God has planned he does understand the plan of salvation and gospel principles. He knows the importance of opposition in this life. He recognizes that while his opposing influence can bring about much bad, for those who ultimately resist him he knows his opposing influence can actually strengthen a person and help them become more righteous. So he doesn't constantly attack anyone and everyone all the time. Based on his experiences with us he waits for those moments he thinks he can win. Sometimes its subtly, sometimes its a full on attack, but usually only when he thinks he has an advantage (though I think there are times when he acts out of pure desperation as well). 

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21 hours ago, Vort said:

 Maybe it's not all superstition. Maybe it's us that are stupid, not our ancestors.

I'm more inclined to be upset or not find meaning in why good people suffer harm, than in why harm happens to most of us. 

On the other hand, maybe more in line with your comment, I have had many good things happen to me or by me, as an agent of something (God? Angels? Karma?) than I have explanations. Why did I take the bus and not the trolley one day, and just happen to stop a toddler from running into the street - a toddler I wouldn't have passed if I'd gotten off 3 blocks away in another direction at the trolley stop?  Stuff like that. So, I may agree with you (slightly. We don't want to get a thing going here, Vort.), but for me, more for the positive stuff that occurs 'by chance.'

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26 minutes ago, dahlia said:

Are spirits Democrats? If so, I will accept your statement. :D

Actually, Democrats is a ancient word that was mistranslated by a careless scribe.  In it's original proper spelling it was demonrats but the "n" was misread as a "c".:)

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On ‎11‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 9:53 PM, Vort said:

To be clear: I completely believe that evil spirits exist and that they exert some sort of influence on us. What I tend to disbelieve is the facile excuse that when we get sick or feel angry or have bad breath or zits, it's evil spirits that are afflicting us. But the fact is, I really don't know how such things work, so I would not be utterly shocked to learn that at least some illnesses or (especially) mental or emotional disorders are rooted in the influences of evil spirits. I don't believe it, but I don't necessarily entirely disbelieve the possibility.

 

I tend to conclude that all events in our collective or individual lives are influenced for good or by evil – as influenced by various spirits.  I do not believe there is even a temptation that is not driven but by something evil.  I also do not believe that there is a truth that can be realized without the “spirit” of truth.  I also believe that an honest and sincere prayer influences the spirits that surround us.  I also believe that whenever we attempt to do good we will meet opposition. 

I believe it was President David O McKay that said that we must pursue good but evil will be thrust upon us.

 

The Traveler

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This has been the topic of discussion before.  I've previously heard several comments that I didn't agree with regarding just how much influence evil spirits have in this world. 

But when I had to actually define a line where I think spirits have power and where they don't, I found if difficult to actually define that line. That is on two levels:  1) I don't know how to verbally or intellectually define the line that I sort of "feel" is there.  2) I don't know if I can find proper scriptural support for any such definition whether it agrees with mine or not.

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33 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

This has been the topic of discussion before.  I've previously heard several comments that I didn't agree with regarding just how much influence evil spirits have in this world. 

But when I had to actually define a line where I think spirits have power and where they don't, I found if difficult to actually define that line. That is on two levels:  1) I don't know how to verbally or intellectually define the line that I sort of "feel" is there.  2) I don't know if I can find proper scriptural support for any such definition whether it agrees with mine or not.

I'll keep this brief...I would suggest as a starting point this text by Joseph Smith. 

http://emp.byui.edu/marrottr/TryTheSpirits.pdf 

Warning: Joseph is not brief.

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49 minutes ago, brlenox said:

I'll keep this brief...I would suggest as a starting point this text by Joseph Smith. 

http://emp.byui.edu/marrottr/TryTheSpirits.pdf 

Warning: Joseph is not brief.

I think you misunderstood what I was having difficulty with.  I understand the difference between a good and evil spirit.  I believe you may have been confused at the juxtaposition of my post directly after Traveler's post. 

I was not addressing him, but the OP -- and expanding upon it, asking: What can evil spirits do and not do?  Your link, as well intended it may have been, did not address that question.  He basically said,"Yup that is a question..." and then drifted off into other stuff.

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As a person very sensitive to patterns in scripture, I have found it instructive that we find that after Christ's 40 day fast that the very first event is the 3 temptations of Satan.  In the end Satan is cast out and departs.

Moses, having been shown of the Lord the magnificence of all creation is then left to his own for a bit.  In that window of opportunity the adversary is permitted to approach Moses.  Events escalate, until Moses terrified in the presence of his unbidden visitor casts him out to a required departure.

Joseph Smith is the source of two similar examples.  It provides an element of requirement that adds veracity to the first vision that before he met God, he should learn of the power of the adversary that sought his destruction.  The Lord, having delivered Joseph, now initiates the restoration with a changed servant who knows both good and evil.

What has come to be known as the first miracle of the Church the Newel K. Knight story of possession.  While most are probably familiar with the events of that occasion, I think it not without merit that the first exercise of priesthood power in this latter day dispensation was in casting Satan out of another possessed individual.

Not long after having been called, a member of my ward asked me to their home.  Events that evening transpired that ultimately required that Satan be cast out and that experience initiated me into the realities of the battles we face. Since that time that education has continued and the realities of the efforts of the adversary to destroy God's children have continued to become exceptionally real and significant.

It is declared multiple times in multiple ways that there are certain events that are especially associated with believers. Doctrine and Covenants 84 says it thus:

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Doctrine and Covenants 84:65-73

65 And these signs shall follow them that believe—

66 In my name they shall do many wonderful works;

67 In my name they shall cast out devils;

68 In my name they shall heal the sick;

69 In my name they shall open the eyes of the blind, and unstop the ears of the deaf;

70 And the tongue of the dumb shall speak;

71 And if any man shall administer poison unto them it shall not hurt them;

72 And the poison of a serpent shall not have power to harm them.

73 But a commandment I give unto them, that they shall not boast themselves of these things, neither speak them before the world; for these things are given unto you for your profit and for salvation.

It is an interesting thing to me that we as saints are often blessed and recognize the gifts of healing amongst us where priesthood authority is manifest as one of those signs of believers.  Yet we seem reluctant to acknowledge or seek out understanding relative to the other promises such as casting out devils. Some I suspect have cast out Satan in their efforts of healing and been completely unaware in ignorance.

In the April 2016 conference, Russell M. Nelson, provided a brilliantly cautionary warning and illuminating discourse that for me spoke very much to this issue.  Amongst many pearls these two stood out for me:           

Quote

Well, brethren, in like manner, I fear that there are too many men who have been given the authority of the priesthood but who lack priesthood power because the flow of power has been blocked by sins such as laziness, dishonesty, pride, immorality, or preoccupation with things of the world.

...In a coming day, only those men who have taken their priesthood seriously, by diligently seeking to be taught by the Lord Himself, will be able to bless, guide, protect, strengthen, and heal others. Only a man who has paid the price for priesthood power will be able to bring miracles to those he loves and keep his marriage and family safe, now and throughout eternity. (The Price of Priesthood Power, April 2016 General Conference, By President Russell M. Nelson)

 Diligently seeking is the key to these things.  I hope we all can so do.

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48 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I think you misunderstood what I was having difficulty with.  I understand the difference between a good and evil spirit.  I believe you may have been confused at the juxtaposition of my post directly after Traveler's post. 

I was not addressing him, but the OP -- and expanding upon it, asking: What can evil spirits do and not do?  Your link, as well intended it may have been, did not address that question.  He basically said,"Yup that is a question..." and then drifted off into other stuff.

Well, truly - how unfortunate. I thought he covered just what you said above in great depth and with great insight.

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2 hours ago, brlenox said:

Well, truly - how unfortunate. I thought he covered just what you said above in great depth and with great insight.

Alas, some people simply don't understand the depth of my soul and cannot comprehend my questions when asked.  Tsk.

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On 11/19/2017 at 9:53 PM, Vort said:

To be clear: I completely believe that evil spirits exist and that they exert some sort of influence on us. What I tend to disbelieve is the facile excuse that when we get sick or feel angry or have bad breath or zits, it's evil spirits that are afflicting us. But the fact is, I really don't know how such things work, so I would not be utterly shocked to learn that at least some illnesses or (especially) mental or emotional disorders are rooted in the influences of evil spirits. I don't believe it, but I don't necessarily entirely disbelieve the possibility.

I tend to believe that emotional and/or mental disorders are probably more often rooted in evil spirits than we like to think.

I don't tend to believe that evil spirits make us physically ill typically, though they may influence in ways that lead to physical illness. I don't believe they break down cars and make tires go flat to keep us from the temple. But when the tire does go flat, they most certainly are there whispering in our ears how that means we can't make it to the temple after all.

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On 11/20/2017 at 8:07 AM, Fether said:

Regardless it happens. I was in charge of a large amount of missionaries in an area and without fail, one week before their baptism some family member died, they got in a car accident the day of their confirmation or even on their way to the baptism (both happened), got anti’d, parents got a divorce, etc.

Think about all the bad stuff that happens to you in a year; every illness, car issue, speeding ticket, stubbed toe, jammed finger, etc. that impacts your ability to do something, whether by physical limitation, taking up part of your discretionary budget, or whatever means.  Are there 52 or more bad things in a year?  If so, odds are very good that one of them will happen in the week leading up to any particular event.  If not, think harder.  If still not, post your address because several of us are really sick of people like you and will make sure you get your share of problems.

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On 11/21/2017 at 1:07 AM, Fether said:

Regardless it happens. I was in charge of a large amount of missionaries in an area and without fail, one week before their baptism some family member died, they got in a car accident the day of their confirmation or even on their way to the baptism (both happened), got anti’d, parents got a divorce, etc.

I remember repeatedly experiencing something the same sort of thing on my mission although sometimes the crisis would occur shortly after the baptism, but whether it happened before or after the net effect was usually the same - a major obstacle suddenly appearing at a crucial moment on someone's path of progress. 

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On 11/21/2017 at 5:41 PM, Carborendum said:

Alas, some people simply don't understand the depth of my soul and cannot comprehend my questions when asked.  Tsk.

It's a tricky proposition that swapping a "u" for an "e"

Makes Carborendum read like carborundum as used in L-E-D's

But spelling aberrations cannot truths meaning obliterate

For if it walks like a duck this ones bound to grate

 

It's a raspy quacking noise that speaks to this conundrum

And claims that "depth" of soul is a quality of carborendum

It's uses, though they're many, seldom claim such aspiration

And SiC1 to most reads as a fever and stinky armpit perspiration  

 

Questions of carborendum are beyond the comprehension of most 

They'll crush one in simplicity while claiming complexity in boast

Perhaps an answer can be supplied in hopes to end the abrasive pout

But carborendom won't search through, too many words "wear" him out.

 

It's oft said that in humor the truth is hid in humor's style  

Less abrasive when it's served up with a big ol' toothy smile

But some things when delivered can't be hid in memorandum

And silly wit with sarcasms rasp seems the grit of Carborendum

 

1 Chemical formula of silicon carbide also known as carborundum,

heavily used as an industrial abrasive amongst other things.

Edited by brlenox
To fix an irritation.
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On 20/11/2017 at 6:37 AM, zil said:

 

This made me wonder (perhaps snarkily), so, what, the evil spirits to whom the interference is attributed can't read?  Or maybe they don't understand the calendar?

If evil spirits can't read, how are you going to understand the answers that have been posted?

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On 11/22/2017 at 3:28 PM, brlenox said:

It's a tricky proposition that swapping a "u" for an "e"

 

It also might be nice if you also posted an introduction in that sub-forum.  Just a friendly suggestion.

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On 11/19/2017 at 8:02 PM, dahlia said:

I think some people here said the Adversary would try to stop my baptism. Please. I don't function at the whim of some spirit. Why do LDS (and some other Protestant groups) get all worried about the devil? God and Jesus have more power than evil. I focus on them. And if I get sick or in an accident (or have an $800 car repair bill, donations accepted...), it's because I was exposed to germs, or a woman hit me in the parking lot, or my 12 yr old car will need repairs sometimes, it's not because of Satan. Good grief. 

Here is an example that might challenge a few of your notions:

 

Quote

(Excerpt from "Logan Temple: The First 100 Years)

Logan Temple President Marriner W. Merrill was sitting in his office one morning in the early 1890's when he heard a commotion outside. Stepping to the window, he saw a great congregation of people coming up the temple hill, some on foot, and others on horseback and in carriages. President Merrill's first thought was, "What will we do with so many people? If we fill every room in the temple, it will not begin to hold them all."

The riders tied their horses up at the hitching posts or turned them loose on the temple corrals, and walked complacently about the front grounds, without seeming to have much purpose in mind. They were rather an odd looking group, and were dressed quite shabbily.

They made no effort to enter the temple, so President Merrill went out to greet them and see what he could do for the group. He said to their leader: "Who are you, and who are these people who have taken possession of the temple grounds unannounced?"

He answered: "I am Satan, and these are my people." Brother Merrill asked: "What do you want, and why have you come here?" Satan replied: "I don't like what is being done in the Logan Temple and have come to stop it." That was a bit of a shock to President Merrill, and he answered: "No, we will not stop it. This is the work of the Lord and must go on. You know that you or any one else can not stop the work of the Lord."

"If you refuse to stop it, I will tell you what I propose to do," the adversary said. "I will scatter this congregation of people throughout these valleys, and we will keep people from coming to the temple. We will whisper in their ears and discourage them from attending the temple. This will stop your temple work."

President Merrill then used the power of his priesthood and commanded Satan and his followers to depart from holy ground. He said that within four or five minutes there was not a person, horse or buggy in sight. They just disappeared into thin air and were gone.

Then for the next ten or twelve years we could have closed the Logan Temple, for very little work was accomplished. In one full year, the number of endowments done totaled only 5,121, while in our day we have done, 3,064 in one day. Where all ordinances for the year equaled but 20,110, today we have done 15,456 in one day, and a total of 1,808,265 for the full year.

Christian L. Olsen lived only a half mile from the temple, and he said any time he said out loud that he was going to the temple, something happened to keep him away. One evening he said to the boys: "Tomorrow we will finish grinding out molasses, and then I'd like to spend a week in the temple." The mill was operating perfectly that evening, but the next morning the main wheel was broken. The more they repaired the machine, the more things broke and went wrong with it. He finally spent the full week making repairs so the only day's grind of molasses could be completed. He did not get to spend the week in the temple.

Another time when he planned a day in the temple, he got up to milk his cows and the corral gate was open. He spent the day hunting the cows in the west fields. Still another time, the corral gate was open again and the horses were gone. It took two days to find them in Logan Canyon. He said: "Anytime I wanted to go to the temple, I soon learned that I could not say it out loud. I got up, milked my cows, set the bucket down and ran. And then I could get there without any trouble."

Eight girls left Garland in a white top buggy one morning at 4am, to do baptisms in the temple. Just as they arrived on the west mountain where they could see the temple, a wheel came off the buggy. Before they reached Logan, they had had trouble with all four wheels, a hame strap had broken, the yoke came apart, and there was one delay after another every few minutes. They finally reached Logan at 5pm, after the baptisms were done and the font had been emptied. Some of the men were still there, the font was refilled, and the girls were baptized. They said that Satan followed them all the way to Logan that day.

The evil one's power and influence are real. He knows the value of temple work and would do anything in his power to keep people away. But he failed to recognize the faithfulness and devotion of the Saints in this area, for they were not easily discouraged.

 

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