Confession Questions


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4 hours ago, Blossom76 said:

Is there a passage in the Book of Mormon about this that I could read? Its just really hard for me to understand when the bible says something completely different, I know there are times when the bible is not taken as divine in the LDS church (as far as translated correctly I think is how its worded), which is a new concept for me also, is this one of those times?

Truthfully, I can't think of any example of when a prophet has taught, "The Bible says thus-and-such, but that's not correct." The Bible is the word of God, and we hold it as such. The problem with the Bible is one of interpretation; as you know, a thousand people can read the Bible and get a thousand different interpretations. Since few outside the LDS Church hold the Book of Mormon to be sacred scripture, we don't have to worry about alternate interpretations.

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1 minute ago, Vort said:

No, you haven't quite understood me correctly. Jesus is God. Jesus can forgive sins; it is his atonement that reunites us with the Father. Man cannot forgive sins because man is not God, and only God can forgive sins. God did not -- indeed, in my opinion, God cannot -- authorize men to forgive sins. By the very nature of our mortal being and sinful state, such a thing is utterly beyond us.

You may ask for a differentiation between praying to the Father for forgiveness and somehow praying to Jesus (of which there are several recorded instances). The best answer I can give is that we do not pray to Jesus, because we have been taught that we pray directly to the Father. Our prayers do not "go through" Jesus, or anyone else. We are allowed, indeed commanded, to go boldly before the throne of God and directly petition the Most High in our own voice.

As to how Jesus' atonement effects our reunification with the father and grants us forgiveness of sin, that's a question of mechanics. As far as I know, such mechanics have not been revealed and never will be revealed to us in this mortal state. God doesn't typically tell us how he does things, only that he does things. The how extends only as far as we need to know to make such things operable in our lives. Beyond that, it's unimportant to us, even distracting.

Thank you, that helps me.  Any chance you know the LDS understanding John 20: 21-23?  This is where the authority to grant forgiveness for sins on Jesus/Gods behalf was given to the apostles by Jesus when he appeared to them after there resurrection.   I'd really appreciate your perspective on this, as I find it very confusing.

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1 hour ago, Jane_Doe said:

From my limited understanding of Catholicism, they appear to have a subtly but very important difference in how the priesthood is viewed.  From my understanding of Catholicism, a priest is a "in persona Christi", in that he is viewed as acting as Christ Himself.  LDS don't have that concept.  In LDS view, Christ is Christ and we are we.  A priest is a servant of Christ, and the priesthood is the authority to act in His name, as He commands, but not to be Him Himself.  There are still miracles worked and lives changed, but it's stressed that it's all through Christ's power.  

Focusing specifically on confession now: both faiths believe Christ is the one who forgives sins.  Catholics believe a priest can forgive sins because he is Christ (in a sense, through in persona Christi).  LDS view Christ as being the one doing the forgiving directly (like everything else) and the priest being the servant by guiding a person through the process.

A Catholic priest is a servant of Jesus Christ, a priest is himself and Jesus is Jesus. A priest shares in the High Priesthood of Jesus, and Jesus acts through the priest.

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2 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

Like I said, both faiths view confession as being important, but in different ways.

For LDS, we renew our baptismal promises/covenants with the Lord each week when we partake of the Lord's Supper.  That's a weekly cleansing and recommitment for us.  Going to the bishop to confess a sin is like going to the doctor with a broken leg: you're there because something went wrong, you set an appointment, your consulting the doctor on how to make it better and keep t from happening again.  

We, including the priest, say together the confiteor (I confess) at every Mass. Doing so is a confession for less serious sins, what we call venial. Absolution is given then, by the priest, acting in the person of Jesus. In the Sacrament of confession, grave sins should be confessed, and it's ok to confess lesser (venial) sins as well. Forgiveness is an action of the Holy Spirit. The sacramental effects are, the rift sin has caused between the penitent and God, and the penitent and the Church, is repaired, remissions of eternal punishment for the sins, peace and serenity of conscience, spiritual consolation, an increase of spiritual strength for the Christian battle.

I see similarities in LDS teaching, except the "peace and serenity of conscience, spiritual consolation, an increase of spiritual strength for the Christian battle", I don't see LDS discuss. Maybe it's not a thing? I just don't know.

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20 minutes ago, Blossom76 said:

Thank you, that helps me.  Any chance you know the LDS understanding John 20: 21-23?  This is where the authority to grant forgiveness for sins on Jesus/Gods behalf was given to the apostles by Jesus when he appeared to them after there resurrection.   I'd really appreciate your perspective on this, as I find it very confusing.

I'm comfortable that what I wrote before is LDS doctrine. My answer to your specific question above is ONLY my own understanding, not to be confused with LDS doctrine. With that caveat, here's my answer:

In our doctrine, we have the idea of something called "the sealing power". This is the power to bind on earth and make the same binding in heaven, and loose on earth and make the same loosing in heaven. It is the root of our idea of eternal marriage and eternal family sealings; if these things are done with the sealing power, then they are in effect in eternity as long as the parties involved are worthy. But implicit in the idea of the sealing power is that these things are always done by the Spirit, or in other words, by direct revelation from God. So when Jesus told his disciples that their forgiveness of sins would result in their sins being forgiven, I see that as clearly meaning that they would be instructed by revelation when a person was truly penitent and was therefore forgiven of sin.

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36 minutes ago, Vort said:

I'm comfortable that what I wrote before is LDS doctrine. My answer to your specific question above is ONLY my own understanding, not to be confused with LDS doctrine. With that caveat, here's my answer:

In our doctrine, we have the idea of something called "the sealing power". This is the power to bind on earth and make the same binding in heaven, and loose on earth and make the same loosing in heaven. It is the root of our idea of eternal marriage and eternal family sealings; if these things are done with the sealing power, then they are in effect in eternity as long as the parties involved are worthy. But implicit in the idea of the sealing power is that these things are always done by the Spirit, or in other words, by direct revelation from God. So when Jesus told his disciples that their forgiveness of sins would result in their sins being forgiven, I see that as clearly meaning that they would be instructed by revelation when a person was truly penitent and was therefore forgiven of sin.

You're a legend, thank you.

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(I missed this comment earlier, my apologies)

5 hours ago, Blossom76 said:

Okay, I think I understand now.  LDS don't believe man can forgive sins on behalf of Jesus, because they don't beleve Jesus can forgive sins only God? 

No, Jesus IS God.  Man cannot forgive sins because man is not God.

5 hours ago, Blossom76 said:

  I was raised to believe that Jesus is the mediator between man and god and can forgive sins

LDS firmly believe this too.

5 hours ago, Blossom76 said:

and that he gave that authority to forgive sins to his apostles.  

LDS do not believe this.  Only God can forgive sins and save, through the power of His atonement.  Man is not God: he did not perform the atonement, he cannot save another, he cannot forgive another as God does-- only God can.

5 hours ago, Blossom76 said:

Matthew 9: 1-6 says Jesus has the authority to forgive sins

Agreed.  He is God.

5 hours ago, Blossom76 said:

John 20: 21-23 Jesus gives that authority to his apostles

John 20:21-23 is Christ ordaining the Apostles withe Holy Ghost.  He is setting them apart to be His servants and do His bidding (preaching, baptizing, etc).  He is not making them God to save people themselves or issue forgiveness-- only God can do that.  Rather the Apostles preach forgiveness, baptism, salvation, etc, and work as HIS servants.

5 hours ago, Blossom76 said:

Is there a passage in the Book of Mormon about this that I could read? Its just really hard for me to understand when the bible says something completely different, I know there are times when the bible is not taken as divine in the LDS church (as far as translated correctly I think is how its worded), which is a new concept for me also, is this one of those times?

Clarification on LDS view of the Bible: LDS FIRMLY believe that the Bible is the word of God.  We just don't hold to sola-sciptura notions (much like Catholics that way).  Scripture is important, but is not to just stand alone, but be guided by the words of God received today (both globally through His Prophet, and personally to each of us).  

As to your specific question... I'm sorry, but I'm not exactly sure I understood what it was (my folly, not yours).  So I'll just go the mass link response:

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/remission-of-sins?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/tg/remission-of-sins?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/topics/repentance?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-19-repentance?lang=eng

Edited by Jane_Doe
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1 hour ago, Blueskye2 said:

I see similarities in LDS teaching, except the "peace and serenity of conscience, spiritual consolation, an increase of spiritual strength for the Christian battle", I don't see LDS discuss. Maybe it's not a thing? I just don't know.

It is a frequently discusses topic.  Yes, LDS do firmly believe those are integral parts of the repentance process.

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1 hour ago, Blossom76 said:

Thank you, that helps me.  Any chance you know the LDS understanding John 20: 21-23?  This is where the authority to grant forgiveness for sins on Jesus/Gods behalf was given to the apostles by Jesus when he appeared to them after there resurrection.   I'd really appreciate your perspective on this, as I find it very confusing.

I both agree and disagree with @Vort's response. In practice, modern apostles have the authority to retain or remit sin, but only do so when it has been revealed to do so. Or rather, they declare what God has already done. Joseph Smith, shortly after receiving the keys of the kingdom from Peter, James, and John [see D&C 27:12-13] gave a few revelations that displayed the exercise of these keys in this way [see D&C 60:7, 61:2, 62:3, 64:3]. I think someone above, with actual bishop experience, posted having similar experiences of a person's forgiven state being revealed to him in the course of administering a blessing. I think authority for this sort of revelation can be delegated to bishops who meet sorrowful saints at the crossroads.

A second way this authority is used is in connection with baptism for the remission of sins. Much of this authority is delegated to Mission Presidents to serve as gatekeepers for the ordinance, but the First Presidency [led by the senior apostle] lets them know the limitation of that delegation. I think there's 1 or 2 sins which they should be notified of so they can guage the penitence [as Vort noted, this is also done at the prompting of the Spirit]. Baptism after an excommunication, when someone has sinned against greater light and knowledge, has a similar path through these keys.

A third way is tied up with the sealing power, or sealing keys. This ends up having a lot of overlap with the keys of the kingdom, because both keys are held by the President of the Church [the senior apostle]. Joseph received a revelation that made it clear that he held a whole slew of keys, including the authority to retain and remit sins [D&C 132:45-47]. Those verses clump together keys that bind and loose, retain and remit, and bless and curse. I view these as priesthood authority given to the apostles to use administratively and personally. I don't think these particular uses can be delegated.

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On 11/24/2017 at 8:26 PM, Blossom76 said:

Thank you, that helps me.  Any chance you know the LDS understanding John 20: 21-23?  This is where the authority to grant forgiveness for sins on Jesus/Gods behalf was given to the apostles by Jesus when he appeared to them after there resurrection.   I'd really appreciate your perspective on this, as I find it very confusing.

There is no difference between LDS and Catholic on the interpretation of John 20:21-23.  In both faiths, Priesthood Authority comes with the power of discernment of the presence of sin and the forgiveness thereof.

In the LDS faith, the keys of discernment are only given to Bishops.  In the Catholic faith, all priests have these keys.

There is also not much difference in the process of repentance/confession between LDS and Catholic except for the ceremonial rites.

A Catholic priest, just like a Bishop, is tasked with helping the flock through the process of repentance.  The confessional, though, is set so that the actual rite of confession is anonymous.   Depending on the sin confessed in the rite, the Priest gives the confessor guidance on how to overcome the sin (which may involve not partaking of the Eucharist and the like) without needing to know who confessed the sin.

In the LDS faith, these rites do not exist - rather, the confession is made directly to God and the Holy Spirit provides comfort and guidance.  Each LDS member is taught correct principles and they are to govern themselves including seeking restitution for their sins (this has nothing to do with the Bishop having a full time job).  A confession to the Bishop is made if the confessor needs the Bishop to guide him through the process of repentance.  The confession to the Bishop is not anonymous although it is kept confidential.  The confessor talks with the Bishop and the Bishop, through his power of discernment, determines how to bring the confessor back into alignment with God.   A lot of times, the temple recommend interview brings to light these sins as the Bishop discerns its presence even as the LDS member did not.

This also happens in the Catholic faith where the confessor seeks help with repentance beyond the rite of confession.  In these cases, the confession is not anonymous anymore and the Priest personally guides the confessor through the process of repentance.  It is very beneficial to have a personal relationship with your parish priest so these things become a source of comfort instead of extreme anxiety.  This is one of the areas in Catholicism that could use a whole lot of improvement.

So, to summarize.  Unlike the Catholic Church, the rite of confession does not exist in the LDS Church.  Confessors confess directly to God (instead of going through the confession rite at the confessional) unless he needs assistance with the repentance process in which he needs to seek guidance from his bishop.

 

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On 11/24/2017 at 11:20 AM, Blueskye2 said:

For a Catholic, Jesus is our great High Priest. A Catholic priest acts in the person of Christ. It is Christ who forgives us of our sins, not the priest. John 20:19-23.

I've always felt that the priest standing in for Christ and offering those beautiful words of absolution are meant as an assurance to me, the penitent.

It is Jesus Himself that says, "I absolve you from your sin", through the priest.  It is for our benefit, our peace of mind that Our Lord offers us the gift of the Sacrament of Confession.  

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On 11/24/2017 at 5:53 PM, Jane_Doe said:

From my limited understanding of Catholicism, they appear to have a subtly but very important difference in how the priesthood is viewed.  From my understanding of Catholicism, a priest is a "in persona Christi", in that he is viewed as acting as Christ Himself.  LDS don't have that concept.  In LDS view, Christ is Christ and we are we.  A priest is a servant of Christ, and the priesthood is the authority to act in His name, as He commands, but not to be Him Himself.  There are still miracles worked and lives changed, but it's stressed that it's all through Christ's power.  

Focusing specifically on confession now: both faiths believe Christ is the one who forgives sins.  Catholics believe a priest can forgive sins because he is Christ (in a sense, through in persona Christi).  LDS view Christ as being the one doing the forgiving directly (like everything else) and the priest being the servant by guiding a person through the process.

I think, and I could be wrong on this point, but I think that a Catholic priest is only in persona Christi at the Consecration of the Eucharist and in the Confessional.  He is not in persona Christi at all times.

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23 hours ago, anatess2 said:

There is no difference between LDS and Catholic on the interpretation of John 20:21-23.  In both faiths, Priesthood Authority comes with the power of discernment of the presence of sin and the forgiveness thereof.

In the LDS faith, the keys of discernment are only given to Bishops.  In the Catholic faith, all priests have these keys.

There is also not much difference in the process of repentance/confession between LDS and Catholic except for the ceremonial rites.

A Catholic priest, just like a Bishop, is tasked with helping the flock through the process of repentance.  The confessional, though, is set so that the actual rite of confession is anonymous.   Depending on the sin confessed in the rite, the Priest gives the confessor guidance on how to overcome the sin (which may involve not partaking of the Eucharist and the like) without needing to know who confessed the sin.

In the LDS faith, these rites do not exist - rather, the confession is made directly to God and the Holy Spirit provides comfort and guidance.  Each LDS member is taught correct principles and they are to govern themselves including seeking restitution for their sins (this has nothing to do with the Bishop having a full time job).  A confession to the Bishop is made if the confessor needs the Bishop to guide him through the process of repentance.  The confession to the Bishop is not anonymous although it is kept confidential.  The confessor talks with the Bishop and the Bishop, through his power of discernment, determines how to bring the confessor back into alignment with God.   A lot of times, the temple recommend interview brings to light these sins as the Bishop discerns its presence even as the LDS member did not.

This also happens in the Catholic faith where the confessor seeks help with repentance beyond the rite of confession.  In these cases, the confession is not anonymous anymore and the Priest personally guides the confessor through the process of repentance.  It is very beneficial to have a personal relationship with your parish priest so these things become a source of comfort instead of extreme anxiety.  This is one of the areas in Catholicism that could use a whole lot of improvement.

So, to summarize.  Unlike the Catholic Church, the rite of confession does not exist in the LDS Church.  Confessors confess directly to God (instead of going through the confession rite at the confessional) unless he needs assistance with the repentance process in which he needs to seek guidance from his bishop.

 

I don't think I'm reading your post correctly.  What part of the Catholic Confession do you think needs a whole lot of improvement?  Personal relationships with the priests for better guidance?  If so, I just want to say that priests are very willing to offer spiritual direction on a regular basis, and I have had monthly SD for years and years.  He knows my strengths and weaknesses and helps me to constantly grow closer to God.  If Catholic  individuals do not take advantage of the priests' help, ...well, that's another kettle of fish.

I do find it interesting that LDS bishops have no authority to offer assurance of forgiveness for sins, but can still judge a person to be 'not worthy' of the temple.  By contrast, a priest can offer assurance of forgiveness, but they do not (as a rule, and only under extreme situations) judge that an individual cannot receive the Eucharist.  Catholic priests can assure us of God's Mercy, but LDS bishops cannot.  Catholic priest withhold judgement in participation in the sum and summit of the Catholic faith (the Eucharist) while the LDS bishop does (necessarily) pass judgement in withholding an individual from participation in the sum and summit of the LDS faith.

 

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58 minutes ago, fatima said:

I don't think I'm reading your post correctly.  What part of the Catholic Confession do you think needs a whole lot of improvement?  Personal relationships with the priests for better guidance?  If so, I just want to say that priests are very willing to offer spiritual direction on a regular basis, and I have had monthly SD for years and years.  He knows my strengths and weaknesses and helps me to constantly grow closer to God.  If Catholic  individuals do not take advantage of the priests' help, ...well, that's another kettle of fish.

 

The relationship between Parishes and Parishioners. 

In the Catholic Church in my area (USA), the Parish is so large that it is impossible for the Priest to have a personal relationship with everyone.  On high mass (yes, we choir people still call it high mass and low mass), they have shuttles that drive parishioners from the parking lot to the Church.  That's how big that parish is.  I was one of the cantors so you would think I would have a personal relationship with the priest.  But no.  No such luck.  He can't remember my name.  Which I wouldn't expect him to do as I don't even know the names of at least 3/4 of the people who attend high mass.  A lot of the faces are not familiar even.

It's just as large in the Philippines.  That's why my dad petitioned the parish for a chapel inside our subdivision.  We have one priest from the diocese that is assigned to hold one mass at our chapel and we have a deacon from the seminary.  Our subdivision was about 50 households and our priest goes there to play tennis or  go to parties or just hang out.  Everybody has a personal relationship with our Priest.  We've had several over the decades as they get moved to different diocese.  But each one of them knows the going-ons in the subdivision.

This is one of the things that the LDS ward does well.  The organization of the ward - although the same as the parish where there is a geographic boundary - is such that the bishop tends to get to know everyone because everybody has a sense of belonging to that ward in the same manner that we had a sense of belonging to our chapel.  Growing up, we attended mass at the chapel.  We don't go around picking and choosing which mass is more convenient.  Also, the LDS ward is organized such that we serve in the ward so we tend to get to know the people in the ward ourselves.  Growing up, we also served at the chapel.  The young boys in the subdivision take turns being acolytes, we have a choir, we rotate reading assignments to all the families, we have cleaning assignments, decorating assignments, we have ministries, we have devotionals on certain days, etc. etc., with all the families organized into service.  But what I grew up with is not a common thing in the Catholic Church.  There's just not that many priests to go around.  Especially in the USA.  There's not much that encourages that kind of fellowship and service within a gigantic parish.  The LDS ward gets broken up into smaller wards with its own bishop if it gets too big.

58 minutes ago, fatima said:

I do find it interesting that LDS bishops have no authority to offer assurance of forgiveness for sins, but can still judge a person to be 'not worthy' of the temple.  By contrast, a priest can offer assurance of forgiveness, but they do not (as a rule, and only under extreme situations) judge that an individual cannot receive the Eucharist.  Catholic priests can assure us of God's Mercy, but LDS bishops cannot.  Catholic priest withhold judgement in participation in the sum and summit of the Catholic faith (the Eucharist) while the LDS bishop does (necessarily) pass judgement in withholding an individual from participation in the sum and summit of the LDS faith.

 

These are all false statements.

Just to pick on a few:  The LDS bishop does have the authority to offer assurance of forgiveness of sins.  Just like in the Catholic faith, the bishop does not forgive the sins, Jesus Christ does through the bishop.

The Catholic priest DO judge that an individual cannot receive the Eucharist.  It's part of his job as a priest in the same manner that it is part of the job of an LDS bishop.

Catholic priests and LDS bishops alike assure us of God's mercy although you don't need the priesthood to do that in both religions.

All the rest are just as false.  I suggest you learn more about the LDS bishop before you make such silly statements.

Edited by anatess2
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41 minutes ago, fatima said:

I do find it interesting that LDS bishops have no authority to offer assurance of forgiveness for sins

Clarifying LDS doctrine here: an LDS bishop does that the authority to offer assurance that sins are forgiven, that's actually part of his calling as bishop.  But the bishop himself does not do the forgiving himself- Christ does the forgiving.  This is different that Catholic doctrine when the priest himself does the forgiving.  

41 minutes ago, fatima said:

Catholic priests can assure us of God's Mercy, but LDS bishops cannot.

Again, LDS bishops do do that.  It's a key part of their calling.

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8 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Clarifying LDS doctrine here: an LDS bishop does that the authority to offer assurance that sins are forgiven, that's actually part of his calling as bishop.  But the bishop himself does not do the forgiving himself- Christ does the forgiving.  This is different that Catholic doctrine when the priest himself does the forgiving.  

The bold is false.  The Catholic priest and the LDS bishop are the same in that regard.  Forgiveness comes from Christ in both instances.

Edited by anatess2
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4 hours ago, anatess2 said:

The relationship between Parishes and Parishioners. 

In the Catholic Church in my area (USA), the Parish is so large that it is impossible for the Priest to have a personal relationship with everyone.  On high mass (yes, we choir people still call it high mass and low mass), they have shuttles that drive parishioners from the parking lot to the Church.  That's how big that parish is.  I was one of the cantors so you would think I would have a personal relationship with the priest.  But no.  No such luck.  He can't remember my name.  Which I wouldn't expect him to do as I don't even know the names of at least 3/4 of the people who attend high mass.  A lot of the faces are not familiar even.

It's just as large in the Philippines.  That's why my dad petitioned the parish for a chapel inside our subdivision.  We have one priest from the diocese that is assigned to hold one mass at our chapel and we have a deacon from the seminary.  Our subdivision was about 50 households and our priest goes there to play tennis or  go to parties or just hang out.  Everybody has a personal relationship with our Priest.  We've had several over the decades as they get moved to different diocese.  But each one of them knows the going-ons in the subdivision.

This is one of the things that the LDS ward does well.  The organization of the ward - although the same as the parish where there is a geographic boundary - is such that the bishop tends to get to know everyone because everybody has a sense of belonging to that ward in the same manner that we had a sense of belonging to our chapel.  Growing up, we attended mass at the chapel.  We don't go around picking and choosing which mass is more convenient.  Also, the LDS ward is organized such that we serve in the ward so we tend to get to know the people in the ward ourselves.  Growing up, we also served at the chapel.  The young boys in the subdivision take turns being acolytes, we have a choir, we rotate reading assignments to all the families, we have cleaning assignments, decorating assignments, we have ministries, we have devotionals on certain days, etc. etc., with all the families organized into service.  But what I grew up with is not a common thing in the Catholic Church.  There's just not that many priests to go around.  Especially in the USA.  There's not much that encourages that kind of fellowship and service within a gigantic parish.  The LDS ward gets broken up into smaller wards with its own bishop if it gets too big.

These are all false statements.

Just to pick on a few:  The LDS bishop does have the authority to offer assurance of forgiveness of sins.  Just like in the Catholic faith, the bishop does not forgive the sins, Jesus Christ does through the bishop.

The Catholic priest DO judge that an individual cannot receive the Eucharist.  It's part of his job as a priest in the same manner that it is part of the job of an LDS bishop.

Catholic priests and LDS bishops alike assure us of God's mercy although you don't need the priesthood to do that in both religions.

All the rest are just as false.  I suggest you learn more about the LDS bishop before you make such silly statements.

LDS in this thread have said that the LDS bishop does not forgive sins, so my statement is based on that.  Catholics do not present a 'recommend' when they approach the Eucharist, so that is what I mean when I say that the priest doesn't withhold the most precious and sacred thing in the Catholic faith.  In the Catholic Church, the individual is supposed to examine themselves before receiving the Sacrament.

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 a person should go to the bishop and confess the sin, as part of the repentance process.  The bishop is not a "person in Christ" as Catholic believe (pardon me, I know I'm totally forgetting the actual proper phrasing here) and cannot forgive sins as Christ would.  Rather, the bishop is to counsel the person, and guides them through seeking repentance with Christ. 

 Man cannot forgive sins because man is not God, and only God can forgive sins. God did not -- indeed, in my opinion, God cannot -- authorize men to forgive sins. By the very nature of our mortal being and sinful state, such a thing is utterly beyond us.

 

@Anatess-if I have misunderstood LDS teaching, I expect you'll forgive me as I am getting mixed messages from LDS posters on this board.

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46 minutes ago, fatima said:

LDS in this thread have said that the LDS bishop does not forgive sins, so my statement is based on that.  Catholics do not present a 'recommend' when they approach the Eucharist, so that is what I mean when I say that the priest doesn't withhold the most precious and sacred thing in the Catholic faith.  In the Catholic Church, the individual is supposed to examine themselves before receiving the Sacrament.

The Catholic priest does not forgive sins.  Christ does.  The priest saying "your sins are forgiven" is not independent of Christ's forgiveness.  The priest is simply carrying out the will of the Lord as he discerns it.  Exact same as an LDS Bishop.  The penitent does not find comfort in the Priest/Bishop's forgiveness.  He finds comfort in Christ's forgiveness. 

Where Catholics misunderstand the LDS is in the FOCUS of where the forgiveness comes from.  The LDS completely focuses on Christ being the source of all forgiveness whereas the Catholics are more tolerant of saying "the priest forgave my sins" when in fact, Christ did.

LDS do not present a recommend to partake of the Sacrament either. 

 

Edited by anatess2
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46 minutes ago, fatima said:

@Anatess-if I have misunderstood LDS teaching, I expect you'll forgive me as I am getting mixed messages from LDS posters on this board.

From where I'm sitting, I'm more inclined to say you misunderstood Catholic teaching.

Edited by anatess2
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