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    • Heather

      Mormon Hub Rules - Please be familiar with these rules before posting   04/17/08

        Any views expressed on Mormon Hub are independent of and do not represent the views of Mormon Hub, More Good Foundation, or Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Site Rules 1. Do not post, upload, or otherwise submit anything to the site that is derogatory towards The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, its teachings, or its leaders. Anti-LDS Propaganda will not be tolerated anywhere. 2. Please be conscious of the fact that although Mormon Hub is aimed towards an LDS audience, that the membership of this site consists of friends from an array of different backgrounds, beliefs, and cultures. Please be respectful and courteous to all, and know that everyone who is willing to follow the Rules and Terms of Mormon Hub are welcome to participate and be a member of Mormon Hub. Keep in mind that anything posted, uploaded, or otherwise displayed on the site should be understandable to friends of other faiths as well as to members. Please define any LDS vocabulary that friends of other faiths may not understand (i.e. Mutual, Relief Society, and Deacon.) 3. Personal attacks, name calling, flaming, and judgments against other members will not be tolerated. 4. No bickering and nit-picking toward others. Realize that sometimes it is very difficult to be able to express how one feels through written words. Please be courteous and ask for a further explanation, rather then trying to attack and find holes in someone else's post. 5. No cursing or crude language. Any swearing, including filter skipping, will result in an automatic one week suspension. 6. Posting issues you have with a moderator or administrator anywhere on the site will not be allowed. Please follow the chain of authority if you have any concerns. Any such posts will be removed and the poster will be subject to the consequences of breaking the rules. List of site moderators Course of action that should be taken if you have a concern: - Send a message directly to the moderator you have a concern about. If you are unable to work out the problem then, - Send a message to the head moderators. - If after you have approached both avenues, you may then send a message to Heather; however know that Heather is very unlikely to over rule anything that has been sanctioned by the moderators and head moderators. 7. Multiple accounts are not allowed and will result in all accounts being banned from the site. 8. Please do not share any "true" or "faith promoting" stories, unless you can verify the source. 9. Do not post any copyrighted material, unless the copyright is owned by you. 10. Bigoted/racial/ethnic comments will not be tolerated. Political Neutrality Policy More Good Foundation, as a nonprofit foundation, must remain neutral with respect to partisan politics and candidate campaigns for public office. The foundation encourages its members and staff to be informed about political issues and to be engaged in civic life; however, it does not endorse or oppose any political parties, candidates, or platforms. Mormon Hub will allow political discussion, also long as all posts remain neutral with respect to partisan politics and candidate campaigns for public office. You may not use the site to show support, endorse, oppose or sanction any candidate. In addition, all posts must be respectful and sensitive to readers of all political beliefs and backgrounds. Any post that violates any of the above conditions will be dealt with according to the consequences of breaking the rules. As a non-profit organization, 501©3, we are governed by legal constraints relative to writing, blogging, or otherwise endorsing any candidate running for political office. The law states, in effect, that no one acting on behalf of the nonprofit can intervene directly or indirectly in the election process by endorsing a political candidate. Any post that speaks favorably about one candidate, even in a religious context, can be construed as indirect intervention in the election process. While journalists are presently exempt from this provision, bloggers and forum-members are not. 12. You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this site to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law. 13. You will not use this site to solicit the sale of any product, service or website. You will not use this site to promote a money making venture or contest. If appropriate, you may post a link to your personal website or to your business on your profile, in your forum signature, and you make create one post in the web link section of the forum. Do not post any link or discuss any business, service, or website that violates any rule of Mormon Hub. Mormon Hub is not responsible for the content of any site linked on Mormon Hub. Consequences to these rules could result in the following, and are determined on a case by case basis. Anything that an Administrator or Moderator determines is more than just an infraction of the rules, will result in immediate banning from the site and/or legal action: First infraction will result in a warning and a message from a moderator on what rule was broken. Second infraction will result in a one week suspension followed by a two week moderator post approval Third infraction will result in banned from the site for good. Any topic, message, video, music, image, or other upload or submission to the site that breaks any rules will be deleted. Please remember that we are not responsible for anything posted or uploaded. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message or upload. We are not responsible for the contents of any message, video, image, post or upload. The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Mormon Hub , More Good Foundation, or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact the Administration immediately by Private Message, Email, or Report a Post. We will make every effort to remove objectionable messages and uploads within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary. Mormon Hub Terms of Use Agreement January 8, 2008 Mormon Hub is a social networking service that allows Members to create unique personal profiles online in order to find and communicate with old and new friends. Mormon Hub refers to "Mormon Hub or its proprietors." The services offered by Mormon Hub ("Mormon Hub" or "we") include the Mormon Hub website (the "Mormon Hub Website"), the Mormon Hub Internet messaging service, and any other features, content, or applications offered from time to time by Mormon Hub in connection with the Mormon Hub Website (collectively, the "Mormon Hub Services"). The Mormon Hub Services are hosted in the U.S. This Terms of Use Agreement ("Agreement") sets forth the legally binding terms for your use of the Mormon Hub Services. By using the Mormon Hub Services, you agree to be bound by this Agreement, whether you are a "Visitor" (which means that you simply browse the Mormon Hub Website) or you are a "Member" (which means that you have registered with Mormon Hub). The term "User" refers to a Visitor or a Member. You are only authorized to use the Mormon Hub Services (regardless of whether your access or use is intended) if you agree to abide by all applicable laws and to this Agreement. Please read this Agreement carefully and save it. If you do not agree with it, you should leave the Mormon Hub Website and discontinue use of the Mormon Hub Services immediately. If you wish to become a Member, communicate with other Members and make use of the Mormon Hub Services, you must read this Agreement and indicate your acceptance during the Registration process. This Agreement includes Mormon Hub's policy for acceptable use of the Mormon Hub Services and Content posted on the Mormon Hub Website, your rights, obligations and restrictions regarding your use of the Mormon Hub Services and Mormon Hub's Privacy Policy. In order to participate in certain Mormon Hub Services, you may be notified that you are required to download software or content and/or agree to additional terms and conditions. Unless otherwise provided by the additional terms and conditions applicable to the Mormon Hub Services in which you choose to participate, those additional terms are hereby incorporated into this Agreement.  Mormon Hub may modify this Agreement from time to time and such modification shall be effective upon posting by Mormon Hub on the Mormon Hub Website. You agree to be bound to any changes to this Agreement when you use the Mormon Hub Services after any such modification is posted. It is therefore important that you review this Agreement regularly to ensure you are updated as to any changes. Please choose carefully the information you post on Mormon Hub and that you provide to other Users. You may NOT include any of the following information anywhere on Mormon Hub, including private messages: telephone numbers, street addresses, last names, and any photographs containing nudity, or obscene, lewd, excessively violent, harassing, sexually explicit or otherwise objectionable subject matter. Email addresses should NEVER be posted to the general public. Despite this prohibition, information provided by other Mormon Hub Members (for instance, in their Profile) may contain inaccurate, inappropriate, offensive or sexually explicit material, products or services, and Mormon Hub assumes no responsibility or liability for this material. If you become aware of misuse of the Mormon Hub Services by any person, please contact Mormon Hub or click on the "Report Inappropriate Content" link at the bottom of any Mormon Hub page. Mormon Hub reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to moderate, reject, refuse to post or remove any posting (including private messages) by you, or to restrict, suspend, or terminate your access to all or any part of the Mormon Hub Services at any time, for any or no reason, with or without prior notice, and without liability. Mormon Hub expressly reserves the right to remove your profile and/or restrict, suspend, or terminate your access to any part of Mormon Hub Services if Mormon Hub determines, in its sole discretion, that you pose a threat to Mormon Hub and/or its Users. Mormon Hub reserves the right to ask a member to change their username if it is found to be offensive or can be perceived as offensive. Due to the sacredness, this would include any usernames that include, Jesus, Christ, God, Lord, names of Prophets, General authorities etc. The names of personal or business websites, blogs, etc. to promote said sites is also prohibited. Using names of political figures or party affiliation is also prohibited. 1. Eligibility. Use of and Membership in the Mormon Hub Services is void where prohibited. By using the Mormon Hub Services, you represent and warrant that (a) all registration information you submit is truthful and accurate; ( B) you will maintain the accuracy of such information; © you are 14 years of age or older; and (d) your use of the Mormon Hub Services does not violate any applicable law or regulation. Your profile may be deleted and your Membership may be terminated without warning, if we believe that you are under 13 years of age. 2. Term. This Agreement shall remain in full force and effect while you use the Mormon Hub Services or are a Member. You may terminate your Membership at any time, for any reason, emailing an admin. Mormon Hub may terminate your Membership at any time, without warning. Even after Membership is terminated, this Agreement will remain in effect, including sections 5-17. 3. Password. When you sign up to become a Member, you will also be asked to choose a password. You are entirely responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your password. You agree not to use the account, username, or password of another Member at any time or to disclose your password to any third party. You agree to notify Mormon Hub immediately if you suspect any unauthorized use of your account or access to your password. You are solely responsible for any and all use of your account. 4. Non-commercial Use by Members. The Mormon Hub Services are for the personal use of Members only and may not be used in connection with any commercial endeavors except those that are specifically endorsed or approved by Mormon Hub. Illegal and/or unauthorized use of the Mormon Hub Services, including collecting usernames and/or email addresses of Members by electronic or other means for the purpose of sending unsolicited email or unauthorized framing of or linking to the Mormon Hub Website is prohibited. Commercial advertisements, affiliate links, and other forms of solicitation may be removed from Member profiles without notice and may result in termination of Membership privileges. Appropriate legal action will be taken for any illegal or unauthorized use of the Mormon Hub Services. 5. Proprietary Rights in Content on Mormon Hub. Mormon Hub does not claim any ownership rights in the text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, musical works, works of authorship, or any other materials (collectively, "Content") that you post to the Mormon Hub Services. After posting your Content to the Mormon Hub Services, you continue to retain all ownership rights in such Content, and you continue to have the right to use your Content in any way you choose. By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content on or through the Mormon Hub Services, you hereby grant to Mormon Hub a limited license to use, modify, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce, and distribute such Content solely on and through the Mormon Hub Services.
      Without this license, Mormon Hub would be unable to provide the Mormon Hub Services. For example, without the right to modify Member Content, Mormon Hub would not be able to digitally compress music files that Members submit or otherwise format Content to satisfy technical requirements, and without the right to publicly perform Member Content, Mormon Hub could not allow Users to listen to music posted by Members. The license you grant to Mormon Hub is non-exclusive (meaning you are free to license your Content to anyone else in addition to Mormon Hub), fully-paid and royalty-free (meaning that Mormon Hub is not required to pay you for the use on the Mormon Hub Services of the Content that you post), sublicensable (so that Mormon Hub is able to use its affiliates and subcontractors such as Internet content delivery networks to provide the Mormon Hub Services), and worldwide (because the Internet and the Mormon Hub Services are global in reach). This license will terminate at the time you remove your Content from the Mormon Hub Services. The license does not grant Mormon Hub the right to sell your Content, nor does the license grant Mormon Hub the right to distribute your Content outside of the Mormon Hub Services. You represent and warrant that: (i) you own the Content posted by you on or through the Mormon Hub Services or otherwise have the right to grant the license set forth in this section, and (ii) the posting of your Content on or through the Mormon Hub Services does not violate the privacy rights, publicity rights, copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any person. You agree to pay for all royalties, fees, and any other monies owing any person by reason of any Content posted by you to or through the LDS.Mormon Hub Services. The Mormon Hub Services contain Content of Mormon Hub ("Mormon Hub Content"). 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Mormon Hub assumes no responsibility for monitoring the Mormon Hub Services for inappropriate Content or conduct. If at any time Mormon Hub chooses, in its sole discretion, to monitor the Mormon Hub Services, Mormon Hub nonetheless assumes no responsibility for the Content, no obligation to modify or remove any inappropriate Content, and no responsibility for the conduct of the User submitting any such Content. You are solely responsible for the Content that you post on or through any of the Mormon Hub Services, and any material or information that you transmit to other Members and for your interactions with other Users. Mormon Hub does not endorse and has no control over the Content. Content is not necessarily reviewed by Mormon Hub prior to posting and does not necessarily reflect the opinions or policies of Mormon Hub. Mormon Hub makes no warranties, express or implied, as to the Content or to the accuracy and reliability of the Content or any material or information that you transmit to other Members.   7. Content/Activity Prohibited. The following is a partial list of the kind of Content that is illegal or prohibited to post on or through the Mormon Hub Services.Mormon Hub reserves the right to investigate and take appropriate legal action against anyone who, in Mormon Hub's sole discretion, violates this provision, including without limitation, removing the offending communication from the Mormon Hub Services and terminating the Membership of such violators. Prohibited Content includes, but is not limited to Content that, in the sole discretion of Mormon Hub: is patently offensive and promotes racism, bigotry, hatred or physical harm of any kind against any group or individual; harasses or advocates harassment of another person; exploits people in a sexual or violent manner; contains nudity, violence, or offensive subject matter or contains a link to an adult website; solicits personal information from anyone; provides any telephone numbers, street addresses, last names, URLs or email addresses; promotes information that you know is false or misleading or promotes illegal activities or conduct that is abusive, threatening, obscene, defamatory or libelous; promotes an illegal or unauthorized copy of another person's copyrighted work, such as providing pirated computer programs or links to them, providing information to circumvent manufacture-installed copy-protect devices, or providing pirated music or links to pirated music files; involves the transmission of "junk mail," "chain letters," or unsolicited mass mailing, instant messaging, "spimming," or "spamming"; contains restricted or password only access pages or hidden pages or images (those not linked to or from another accessible page); furthers or promotes any criminal activity or enterprise or provides instructional information about illegal activities including, but not limited to making or buying illegal weapons, violating someone's privacy, or providing or creating computer viruses; solicits passwords or personal identifying information for commercial or unlawful purposes from other Users; involves commercial activities and/or sales without our prior written consent such as contests, sweepstakes, barter, advertising, or pyramid schemes; includes a photograph of another person that you have posted without that person's consent; or uses sexually suggestive imagery or any other unfair, misleading or deceptive Content intended to draw traffic to the profile.
      The following is a partial list of the kind of activity that is illegal or prohibited on the Mormon Hub Website and through your use of the Mormon Hub Services. Mormon Hub reserves the right to investigate and take appropriate legal action against anyone who, in Mormon Hub's sole discretion, violates this provision, including without limitation, reporting you to law enforcement authorities. Prohibited activity includes, but is not limited to: criminal or tortuous activity, including child pornography, fraud, trafficking in obscene material, drug dealing, gambling, harassment, stalking, spamming, spimming, sending of viruses or other harmful files, copyright infringement, patent infringement, or theft of trade secrets; advertising to, or solicitation of, any Member to buy or sell any products or services through the Mormon Hub Services. You may not transmit any chain letters or junk email to other Members. It is also a violation of these rules to use any information obtained from the Mormon Hub Services in order to contact, advertise to, solicit, or sell to any Member without their prior explicit consent. In order to protect our Members from such advertising or solicitation, Mormon Hub reserves the right to restrict the number of emails which a Member may send to other Members in any 24-hour period to a number which Mormon Hub deems appropriate in its sole discretion. If you breach this Agreement and send unsolicited bulk email, instant messages or other unsolicited communications of any kind through the Mormon Hub Services, you acknowledge that you will have caused substantial harm to Mormon Hub, but that the amount of such harm would be extremely difficult to ascertain. 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    • rpframe

      IMPORTANT!! -- Login Issues   09/12/17

      TL;DR; In order to fix login issues, a lot of people will have to reset their password. As of now, if you are unable to login, please attempt a "Forgot Password"/"Password Reset" (check your spam folder) and if that doesn't work then feel free to Contact Us, for help and please check back on this post for any status updates and FAQs as we go through this process. FAQ:
      [Reserved Space]
      Firstly, I'd like to apologize on behalf of MormonHub for the frustration of the login system. There is a lot of cool things we could do with the login system, and having the logins synced up between our forum system and our front end system has been nice, but for multiple reasons (not just the current login issues), we have decided to move back to the earlier login system. While I would love to be able to migrate everyone's current passwords back, but the systems are just not compatible that way. So a large number of users will need to do a password reset. We realize that we forced everyone to do this on the move to the new system, and we sincerely apologize to everyone that will have to do it again. The Login System has now been swapped over. Give us a little bit of time to work out kinks in the system (will post updates here). If you are unable to login anymore, then please perform a password reset (check spam folder) and if that fails and we don't have any acknowledgement of problems on this post (No known problems at this time), then feel free to contact us (keeping in mind that there are a lot of you and very few of us).
Blossom76

Heavenly Mother & Mother Mary

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Hi guys, I was hoping to get some insight on Heavenly Mother (the concept is very new to me so I basically have no clue about it at all!), and also what the LDS doctrine teachings (and also your own personal views) on The Virgin Mary Mother Of Jesus, the Virgin Birth etc

Thanks for reading, appreciate all responses

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On the Subject of Heavenly Mother our doctrine can be summed up with the phrase "She Exists"  Everything beyond that is speculation.

As for Mary... we do not believe in Original Sin, without Original Sin there is no need for an Immaculate Conception.  Without Immaculate Conception Mary is a "just" a really good person that God chose for a very important role.

She gave birth the the Only Begotton Son of God and then gave birth the the Son and Daughters of Joseph her Husband (The Scripture mention Jesus's brothers and sisters)

Honesty I think LDS members tend to down play her role more then we should. (Probably some knee jerk protestant culture we absorbed to avoid appearing too Catholic)

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(Adding my voice to the choir)

34 minutes ago, Blossom76 said:

Hi guys, I was hoping to get some insight on Heavenly Mother (the concept is very new to me so I basically have no clue about it at all!), and also what the LDS doctrine teachings (and also your own personal views) on The Virgin Mary Mother Of Jesus, the Virgin Birth etc

Thanks for reading, appreciate all responses

First of all Heavenly Mother is NOT the virgin Mary.  They are completely separate people.

Heavenly Mother: it is known that She exists, but that's about it (remember, LDS believe that God has many more wonderful things to reveal to us).  Here's official essay summing up the little that is known https://www.lds.org/topics/mother-in-heaven?lang=eng  

 

 

The Virgin Mary: was a human woman, highly favored of the Lord, but not divine or perfect like Christ.  LDS don't believe in The Original Sin, so Mary's immaculate conception isn't really applicable at all.  She was a virgin when she conceived Christ through the Holy Spirit, as described in Luke.  She later married Joseph and the two of them had children together.  When Christ died He asked John to look after her.  LDS do not believe in the ascension of Mary nor praying to her for intercession (or anyone else for intercession).  She's talked about in the Bible obviously, but also in the Book of Mormon like: 

  • Mary was a virgin, most beautiful and fair above all other virgins, 1 Ne. 11:13–20.

  • Christ’s mother was to be called Mary, Mosiah 3:8.

  • Mary would be a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, Alma 7:10.

More verses: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/mary-mother-of-jesus?lang=eng

Edited by Jane_Doe

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6 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

 

First of all Heavenly Mother is NOT the virgin Mary.  They are completely separate people.

I do understand and am well aware of that, sorry if my question is not clear, the first part of my sentence was about Heavenly Mother (who as far as I'm aware doesn't have a name) and the second part was about the Virgin Mary Mother Of Jesus

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15 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

On the Subject of Heavenly Mother our doctrine can be summed up with the phrase "She Exists"  Everything beyond that is speculation.

As for Mary... we do not believe in Original Sin, without Original Sin there is no need for an Immaculate Conception.  Without Immaculate Conception Mary is a "just" a really good person that God chose for a very important role.

She gave birth the the Only Begotton Son of God and then gave birth the the Son and Daughters of Joseph her Husband (The Scripture mention Jesus's brothers and sisters)

Honesty I think LDS members tend to down play her role more then we should. (Probably some knee jerk protestant culture we absorbed to avoid appearing too Catholic)

I would add one bit of info there. Mary was literally of the House of David. Jesus's royal lineage comes through Mary but interestingly, Joseph was also house of David and therefore Christ would have been adopted into the royal house of David anyway.

Christ's royal lineage is literal from his earthly mom (matriarchal) which means he didn't need to be adopted into the house of David in order to claim ascendancy to Israel's throne.

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48 minutes ago, Blossom76 said:

I do understand and am well aware of that, sorry if my question is not clear, the first part of my sentence was about Heavenly Mother (who as far as I'm aware doesn't have a name) and the second part was about the Virgin Mary Mother Of Jesus

No worries, I was just making sure.  It's a very common mix-up.

On an additional thought: LDS talk about the virgin Mary pretty regularly, especially around Christmas time.  Heavenly Mother is very rarely talked about, simply because we don't know much so there's not much to say.  

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1 hour ago, Blossom76 said:

I do understand and am well aware of that, sorry if my question is not clear, the first part of my sentence was about Heavenly Mother (who as far as I'm aware doesn't have a name) and the second part was about the Virgin Mary Mother Of Jesus

I believe she does have a name. I doubt any of us will ever know what that name is during this life. ;)

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4 minutes ago, Blossom76 said:

But Heavenly Mother is God the Fathers wife right? And I guess our spiritual mother like he is our spiritual father. 

Correct, that is known and stated in the "Proclamation on the Family" and other sources.

4 minutes ago, Blossom76 said:

 I wish there was more information about her, I really like the idea of her, it's a beautiful concept.

Same here!  

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7 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Correct, that is known and stated in the "Proclamation on the Family" and other sources.

Same here!  

Hmm, I don't. I wouldn't want my wife's name uttered in vile conversation. As it is now sooo much TV and film is both filthy and blasphemous.

Remember that this is the planet that would torture and kill a God. No, I reckon the amount of info we have on her is sufficient given the state of the earth.  

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2 hours ago, Blossom76 said:

and also your own personal views

If you mean only our personal views about Mary, I have nothing much to offer. I think she was the mother of Jesus, a chosen and pure vessel, surely one of the holiest and most virtuous of women ever to walk the earth. Which doesn't really add anything to the discussion.

If you mean our personal views about Mother, I have a few I'm willing to share:

  1. Speculation about the Mother is almost always damaging, and at very best is irrelevant (because it's just speculation -- we might as well speculate on the Father's eye color or some such thing).
  2. Why we have even been given the knowledge about the Mother's existence, I don't know -- but I speculate it is because our women need to gain at least a hazy, ill-defined glimpse at the possibilities of their future exaltation, similar to what men have been given.
  3. On a personal level, I have very little doubt we knew the Mother intimately in our premortal lives. I would not be surprised if, for us, she was the most important person we knew, similar to our mothers in the flesh during our childhood. But for us right now, today, in this life, our focus is on the Father, not the Mother. We pray to the Father. We worship the Father. We covenant with the Father. We make all our petitions to the Father. We look to the Father for guidance, for instruction, for wisdom. If we look to the Mother for any such thing, we are acting in a foolhardy manner, looking dangerously beyond the mark.

Let us take comfort in the fact that Mother exists, that we once knew Her well, and that we surely will know her again in the eternities, but with even greater insight and appreciation -- and be content therewith. Let us spend no more time worrying about Mother's "role" or how we can "talk to her" or other such irrelevancies. Let us approach the Father, as we have been taught, and through his great power and love gain our exaltation. Then all things will be added unto us.

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@Blossom76, to be clear, I was not responding directly to you or chastising you at all. Your question was perfectly reasonable. I was simply giving my thoughts as (possibly) requested, and I suppose my thoughts were generated by the unhealthy fixation on the Mother in heaven that I occasionally see displayed by some Latter-day Saints.

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11 minutes ago, Vort said:

@Blossom76, to be clear, I was not responding directly to you or chastising you at all. Your question was perfectly reasonable. I was simply giving my thoughts as (possibly) requested, and I suppose my thoughts were generated by the unhealthy fixation on the Mother in heaven that I occasionally see displayed by some Latter-day Saints.

I’m in agreement with your notion that some speculation is damaging.   As an investigator, I’m often confused by things that are put forth as fact when they are really beliefs or suppositions.  Without revelation, how would we know some of these things and do they really matter with regard to our worship and pursuits?

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1 hour ago, Grunt said:

I’m in agreement with your notion that some speculation is damaging.   As an investigator, I’m often confused by things that are put forth as fact when they are really beliefs or suppositions.  Without revelation, how would we know some of these things and do they really matter with regard to our worship and pursuits?

I believe that God reveals to us what really matters to our salvation and  exaltation.  Those that has not been revealed, we simply do not need at this time.

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12 hours ago, Alex said:

I would add one bit of info there. Mary was literally of the House of David. Jesus's royal lineage comes through Mary but interestingly, Joseph was also house of David and therefore Christ would have been adopted into the royal house of David anyway.

Christ's royal lineage is literal from his earthly mom (matriarchal) which means he didn't need to be adopted into the house of David in order to claim ascendancy to Israel's throne.

The Genealogy in Luke is Mary's.  The Genealogy in Matthew is Joseph's.  Note that Matthew is a Jew and would therefore have expertise in the manner of genealogy which is evident in the manner by which he wrote the account, yet he has several non-traditional insertions/ommissions in his account.  This may be because Matthew was not trying to prove Jesus is of the house of David through Joseph (because Jesus would not be his bloodline) but rather as the fulfillment of other prophesy.  Luke, on the other hand, is a Gentile, yet his genealogy is written in the traditional Jewish custom.  This is the genealogy that shows Jesus as having the bloodline of the House of David.

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6 hours ago, anatess2 said:

The Genealogy in Luke is Mary's.  The Genealogy in Matthew is Joseph's.  Note that Matthew is a Jew and would therefore have expertise in the manner of genealogy which is evident in the manner by which he wrote the account, yet he has several non-traditional insertions/ommissions in his account.  This may be because Matthew was not trying to prove Jesus is of the house of David through Joseph (because Jesus would not be his bloodline) but rather as the fulfillment of other prophesy.  Luke, on the other hand, is a Gentile, yet his genealogy is written in the traditional Jewish custom.  This is the genealogy that shows Jesus as having the bloodline of the House of David.

Hmm, the old perspective is the one you've recited there-  'Luke's is an account of Mary's genealogy while Matthew accounts for Joseph's genealogy'. However that's not the perspective scholars now tend to hold. The perspective now is that that "Matthew provides an official genealogy of the Davidic heir to which the names of Joseph and Jesus were attached."

https://byustudies.byu.edu/charts/8-6-lineages-joseph

Of course you can read those books the traditional way if you wish... Hmm, on the subject of a trad read versus a scholarly read, I recall one of the new apostles in a Christmas devotional just a year or two ago gave a very traditional account of the nativity- no mention of the scholarly manger being at the tower where the newborn lambs for the temple were raised and that is okay as his account was just as you'd read from the New Testament. 

Edited by Alex
why not?

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4 hours ago, Alex said:

Hmm, the old perspective is the one you've recited there-  'Luke's is an account of Mary's genealogy while Matthew accounts for Joseph's genealogy'. However that's not the perspective scholars now tend to hold. The perspective now is that that "Matthew provides an official genealogy of the Davidic heir to which the names of Joseph and Jesus were attached."

https://byustudies.byu.edu/charts/8-6-lineages-joseph

Of course you can read those books the traditional way if you wish... Hmm, on the subject of a trad read versus a scholarly read, I recall one of the new apostles in a Christmas devotional just a year or two ago gave a very traditional account of the nativity- no mention of the scholarly manger being at the tower where the newborn lambs for the temple were raised and that is okay as his account was just as you'd read from the New Testament. 

We don't put too much stock in scholarly, right?  I mean, that's the issue with the Catholic doctrine that got formed by the greatest philosophers right?  Wait... I'm assuming you're LDS.  I'm still in Thanksgiving food coma so my brain is not firing on all cylinders.

So anyway (I'm too lazy to read the link you provided.  I promise to read it after I get my brain back), by Jewish tradition, Jesus is not of the House of David through Joseph because Jesus is not blood related to Joseph.  A child can be adopted as a Jew if his mother is Jew or if he goes through the legal process of conversion and become Jew at age 13.  Mary is a Jew.  Therefore, Jesus is a Jew through her bloodline.

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11 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

We don't put too much stock in scholarly, right?  I mean, that's the issue with the Catholic doctrine that got formed by the greatest philosophers right?  Wait... I'm assuming you're LDS.  I'm still in Thanksgiving food coma so my brain is not firing on all cylinders.

So anyway (I'm too lazy to read the link you provided.  I promise to read it after I get my brain back), by Jewish tradition, Jesus is not of the House of David through Joseph because Jesus is not blood related to Joseph.  A child can be adopted as a Jew if his mother is Jew or if he goes through the legal process of conversion and become Jew at age 13.  Mary is a Jew.  Therefore, Jesus is a Jew through her bloodline.

It's not a biggy- Luke's is more focused on showing Christ as a descendant of God through Adam while Matthew's is more focused on the Abrahamic line through David, thus following the throne of Israel. 

With the scholarly academic read instead of the Mary & Joseph ancestry read we gain an insight into Luke --who isn't born of Israel himself-- yet he believes strongly that Jesus is the Son of God. He emphasizes Christ's line back to God the father through Adam.

Yes, Christ's Davidic literal lineage still comes from Mary with either read.

 

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Do we all necessarily have the same Heavenly Mother? If there is (as Mormons believe) polygamy in heaven, is it possible that God has multiple wives?

(Sorry Vort - I'm totally ignoring your advice against speculation here!) 

 

Edited by Jamie123
I meant polygamy, not polytheism

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15 minutes ago, Jamie123 said:

Do we all necessarily have the same Heavenly Mother? If there is (as Mormons believe) polytheism in heaven, is it possible that God has multiple wives?

(Sorry Vort - I'm totally ignoring your advice against speculation here!) 

There's an old speculation I heard back in the 70's that the races we see distinct on earth may come from the father's various wives but how that would work is not something that I've seen worked out... unless Noah's ark is a greater symbol than just the baptism of the earth for all of us are descended from Noah.

;)

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6 hours ago, Jamie123 said:

Do we all necessarily have the same Heavenly Mother? If there is (as Mormons believe) polygamy in heaven, is it possible that God has multiple wives?

(Sorry Vort - I'm totally ignoring your advice against speculation here!) 

 

Brigham Young taught exactly, this.  (And not as speculation.)

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20 minutes ago, Blueskye2 said:

Brigham Young taught exactly, this.  (And not as speculation.)

Says someone that does not understand how the LDS church gets and vets revelations.

In the New Testament Christ commands his 12 to be one even as the Father and him were one.  And warned them if they were not one they were not his.  Then we see examples of both cases in the New Testament.

The LDS church is under the same command.  Brigham Young did indeed teach that, but was the 12 untied with him?  Evidence points to no (Otherwise it would still be being taught and not subject to rumors).

So is it Doctrine?  If by Doctrine you mean it was taught briefly at some point then yeah it was.  If by Doctrine you mean the First Presidency and the Quorum of the 12 became one on the matter and announced  it to the body of the Church as binding doctrine and currently teaches it?  No that has not happened.  (The Proclamation of the Family is closer to that then the polygamy of God the Father is).  If by Doctrine you mean that it represents a Eternal reality... well we do not know, because there was no oneness on the matter, thus it is speculation.  It is is not wise to discount the teaching of any prophet, but the Lord put in a system of checks and balances to counter the fact the prophets are still human and can make mistakes.

 

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5 hours ago, estradling75 said:

Says someone that does not understand how the LDS church gets and vets revelations.

In the New Testament Christ commands his 12 to be one even as the Father and him were one.  And warned them if they were not one they were not his.  Then we see examples of both cases in the New Testament.

The LDS church is under the same command.  Brigham Young did indeed teach that, but was the 12 untied with him?  Evidence points to no (Otherwise it would still be being taught and not subject to rumors).

So is it Doctrine?  If by Doctrine you mean it was taught briefly at some point then yeah it was.  If by Doctrine you mean the First Presidency and the Quorum of the 12 became one on the matter and announced  it to the body of the Church as binding doctrine and currently teaches it?  No that has not happened.  (The Proclamation of the Family is closer to that then the polygamy of God the Father is).  If by Doctrine you mean that it represents a Eternal reality... well we do not know, because there was no oneness on the matter, thus it is speculation.  It is is not wise to discount the teaching of any prophet, but the Lord put in a system of checks and balances to counter the fact the prophets are still human and can make mistakes.

 

I had no idea this was taught by a Prophet, it makes me really uneasy, I'm going to have to look at Brigham Young and what he taught, I dont know much about church history except the basic teachings the church gives on Joseph Smith.

Is there Polygamy in the celestial kingdom? And if so is it a requirement for the highest degree of glory?

Edited by Blossom76
Spelling!

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