Changing Mind About Trump

[Guest Godless]

6 hours ago, anatess2 said:

When did Trump call the EU a foe?

All the others is plain and simple - you think he is harsh to our allies because you don't agree with his stance on trade. 

 

Again, this is just trade talk, but his use of moral equivalency between the EU and Russia/China is unnecessary. Simply put, I can't trust a president who views those three entities as equals.

Also, weird footnote, he incorrectly claimed that his father was born in Germany. 🤔

 

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

@NeuroTypical, not sure if you're partial to Rush Limbaugh but this analysis has merit.

https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2018/07/17/why-trump-did-not-acknowledge-russian-meddling/

 

No, it doesn't. Rush seemed to make two points:

1. Russia has been meddling in our elections for decades.

He offered no facts or other basis for this claim. He just sort of threw it out there. Let's pretend for a moment that it's true (to be fair, I have no evidence that it's not). The fact that it's a long, ongoing development does not justify it or make it in any way acceptable. Moreover, if Rush's claims are true, Trump is in a unique position to put "America First" and finally put a stop to it. What better way to MAGA than to end a years-long hit job on our democratic process? But yesterday's press conference didn't give me the impression that that's on the agenda. But again, this is all based on the unsubstantiated claim that Russia has been doing this longer than I've been alive.

2. Meddling and collusion are two different things, but Trump can't acknowledge meddling without casting doubt on the legitimacy of his victory and adding fuel to the collusion charge.

Yes, meddling and collusion are different. And yes, acknowledging the meddling would create problems for Trump. But to openly side with Putin over the US intelligence community reeks of treason. Trump has made it clear that he has more faith in Putin's words than the findings of our own law enforcement agencies. 

As to the meddling/collusion link, if there is evidence of meddling (and there most certainly is), the next logical step is to investigate the possible involvement, wittingly or otherwise, of US citizens. The aforementioned indictment of Maria Butina exposes a very real possibility for this, and it's not just Trump that needs to be worried. If the DoJ complaint is true, then multiple GOP lawmakers may have been compromised. 

Edited July 17, 2018 by Godless

[Guest Godless]

7 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

In fact, it's so pathetic that third party voters claim great success when their guy doesn't finish last, you know, losing to Lyndon LaRouche or Harold Stassen. We hear people say "Oh, well Evan almost won Utah." Yeah, but he didn't actually win. Or "Well Ross Perot almost got 20 million votes." Yes, well, um, he didn't win a single state though.  

I voted for Johnson, so I can safely say that third party voters are idiotic and don't have a clue how the political system in 2016 works. We do so because we think we are better than all those fools who hold their nose, get their hands dirty and vote for a Republican or Democrat. 

Never forget that Jello Biafra won 3% of the vote (about 6500 votes) for San Francisco mayor in 1979. 🤘

[estradling75]

31 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

In fact, it's so pathetic that third party voters claim great success when their guy doesn't finish last, you know, losing to Lyndon LaRouche or Harold Stassen. We hear people say "Oh, well Evan almost won Utah." Yeah, but he didn't actually win. Or "Well Ross Perot almost got 20 million votes." Yes, well, um, he didn't win a single state though.  

I voted for Johnson, so I can safely say that third party voters are idiotic and don't have a clue how the political system in 2016 works. We do so because we think we are better than all those fools who hold their nose, get their hands dirty and vote for a Republican or Democrat. 

To continue that line... "But we won the popular vote..."  The rules for the election have been in place for over 200 years... Popular vote is not the metric for winning.

[NeuroTypical]

Yeah... Popular vote...

  

 

[Sunday21]

Can’t you imagine what it must feel like to work for a US intelligence agency right now? I bet there are quite a few lds people in those agencies. Picture it: sober, diligent, nicely groomed, speak another language (mission), used to addressing meetings. Who would you hire? 

Edited July 17, 2018 by Sunday21

[Guest Godless]

9 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Can’t you imagine what it must feel like to work for a US intelligence agency right now? I bet there are quite a few lds people in those agencies. Picture it: sober, diligent, nicely groomed, speak another language (mission), used to addressing meetings. Who would you hire? 

My dad was one of those people for 22 years. Most of the priesthood holders in our wards when I was growing up were career intel guys (mix of military and civilian) as well.

[Guest MormonGator]

53 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

To continue that line... "But we won the popular vote..."  The rules for the election have been in place for over 200 years... Popular vote is not the metric for winning.

"Coach, I got more passing yards then they did. How come we still lost?
"Because Jimmy, that's not how we determine who wins and loses."

Wow! Two parables today. One involving a pet food CEO, and now a football coach and quarterback. What will he think of next? I rule! 

[Guest MormonGator]

1 hour ago, Godless said:

Never forget that Jello Biafra won 3% of the vote (about 6500 votes) for San Francisco mayor in 1979. 🤘

lol! Dude, I was just listening to them today on my walk! 

[Sunday21]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/17/world/europe/trump-putin-summit.html

Trump now accepts Russia interfered in election:On Tuesday, Mr. Trump said, “In a key sentence in my remarks, I said the word ‘would’ instead of ‘wouldn’t.’”

 

. Trump said the misunderstanding arose from an awkward attempt to use a “double negative.”

“The sentence should have been ‘I don’t see any reason why it wouldn’t be Russia,’ sort of a double negative,” he said. “So you can put that in and I think that probably clarifies things pretty good by itself. I have on numerous occasions noted our intelligence findings that Russians attempted to interfere in our elections

Edited July 17, 2018 by Sunday21

[Guest Godless]

11 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/17/world/europe/trump-putin-summit.html

Trump now accepts Russia interfered in election:On Tuesday, Mr. Trump said, “In a key sentence in my remarks, I said the word ‘would’ instead of ‘wouldn’t.’”

 

. Trump said the misunderstanding arose from an awkward attempt to use a “double negative.”

“The sentence should have been ‘I don’t see any reason why it wouldn’t be Russia,’ sort of a double negative,” he said. “So you can put that in and I think that probably clarifies things pretty good by itself. I have on numerous occasions noted our intelligence findings that Russians attempted to interfere in our elections

That statement was very convincing and was read as if Trump still had the full support of the GOP.

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Oops, wasn't. I meant wasn't. 

[Just_A_Guy]

I wonder if Trump’s just getting tired of all the Winning?

[Sunday21]

GOP please wake up and subdue Mr T! 

[NeuroTypical]

3.4 million jobs since election night, popular tax cuts, interest rates finally rising, people paying less in taxes and payrolls going up, stuff getting said to the UN and NATO and Dems and the News media that we've all been thinking for decades, Gorsuch and the other guy - waaaaaaaaay too many good things happening for any subduing to happen.

Just, dang.  Don't bash Americans when you're standing next to Putin.  Bash Putin.

[Sunday21]

9 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

3.4 million jobs since election night, popular tax cuts, interest rates finally rising, people paying less in taxes and payrolls going up, stuff getting said to the UN and NATO and Dems and the News media that we've all been thinking for decades, Gorsuch and the other guy - waaaaaaaaay too many good things happening for any subduing to happen.

Just, dang.  Don't bash Americans when you're standing next to Putin.  Bash Putin.

Life is about to get more expensive! Trade Wars are beginning. 

[zil]

45 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

GOP please wake up and subdue Mr T! 

Like that's gonna happen:

[estradling75]

51 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

GOP please wake up and subdue Mr T! 

I assume you are familiar with the story of the Boy who cried wolf...  Because that is what is repeating here.

The various media/Liberal/Democrats and such groups have been attacking any and all conservative/republican candidates for a very long time... Declaring them to be worst then Hitler...

For awhile this worked... the conservative/republican would respond but like the villagers in the story they got tired of being played for fools and have stopped responding.

It does not matter if you think Trump is a wolf or not... the accusations/cries of such have lost their power due to abuse.  And the Liberal/Democrats have only themselves to blame for it.

 

[anatess2]

23 hours ago, Godless said:

 

Again, this is just trade talk, but his use of moral equivalency between the EU and Russia/China is unnecessary. Simply put, I can't trust a president who views those three entities as equals.

He's been your President for 1 1/2 years and you still don't understand him.  Everything to Trump is a Negotiation.  Everybody on the other side of that negotiation table is a "foe".  This is the only President that you've had that thinks WAR is just another Negotiation.  The left side of American politics have been attacking Republicans for decades accusing them of being war-mongers.  Now you got a President who is not one and you still continue to assign the same war-mongering paradigm to what a "foe" means to this President.  You can disagree with his positions is one thing, and that's fine.  Putting his statements completely out of context, then attack that fake narrative is another thing, and that's not fine.

 

23 hours ago, Godless said:

 

1. Russia has been meddling in our elections for decades.

He offered no facts or other basis for this claim. He just sort of threw it out there. Let's pretend for a moment that it's true (to be fair, I have no evidence that it's not). The fact that it's a long, ongoing development does not justify it or make it in any way acceptable. Moreover, if Rush's claims are true, Trump is in a unique position to put "America First" and finally put a stop to it. What better way to MAGA than to end a years-long hit job on our democratic process? But yesterday's press conference didn't give me the impression that that's on the agenda. But again, this is all based on the unsubstantiated claim that Russia has been doing this longer than I've been alive.

2. Meddling and collusion are two different things, but Trump can't acknowledge meddling without casting doubt on the legitimacy of his victory and adding fuel to the collusion charge.

Yes, meddling and collusion are different. And yes, acknowledging the meddling would create problems for Trump. But to openly side with Putin over the US intelligence community reeks of treason. Trump has made it clear that he has more faith in Putin's words than the findings of our own law enforcement agencies. 

As to the meddling/collusion link, if there is evidence of meddling (and there most certainly is), the next logical step is to investigate the possible involvement, wittingly or otherwise, of US citizens. The aforementioned indictment of Maria Butina exposes a very real possibility for this, and it's not just Trump that needs to be worried. If the DoJ complaint is true, then multiple GOP lawmakers may have been compromised. 

If you're just now hearing about Russia - and many other countries - meddling in US elections then you are either too young to know better or you have not paid a single bit of attention to your own elections.

Election meddling by foreign countries is the natural state of affairs on the Planet.  The US is the #1 meddler in Philippine, Israeli, and Russian elections and had a hand in the formation of the Marcos dictatorship as well as his ouster and the installation of the Aquino oligarchy.  The Duterte election was a spit-in-the-eye of the Americans.  The Filipinos believed the 90+% chance of Hilary becoming president so we prepared ourselves by making sure our President has ZERO American strings attached.  Russia has been meddling in Chinese, European, and American elections since before Reagan.  It is mind-boggling to me that you don't know this.  I've been saying here on lds.net how hypocritical this "Russian meddling" and "Russian collusion" narrative is.  The American taxpayer has been funding American meddling in Russian elections MORE THAN TWICE MORE than Russians meddled in American elections.  They don't even try to hide it.  Obama himself announced to the entire planet his hand in the attempt to ouster Netanyahu.  And I saw firsthand the 2 F'4s doing flybys over the Malacanang to protect the non-Democratically elected Corazon Aquino.  Russia - even Putin himself - have been meddling in EVERY SINGLE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION in the US.  The Chinese has too and so has the Israelis.  It is a testament to the strength of the US Constitution that none of these has had any effect on actual voting machines.

Here, I dug up some sources for you from your own left-wing rags:  

This is a pitiful list - but hey, it's wikipedia:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_electoral_intervention

Here's a NYT one:  https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/17/sunday-review/russia-isnt-the-only-one-meddling-in-elections-we-do-it-too.html

Foreign collusion with Presidential candidates is also rampant.  Hillary and Obama colluded with the British and the Russians to try to sink Trump in these elections, that much is blatantly obvious.

And no, I don't believe Russia hacked the DNC server... unless you want to posit that Seth Rich is Russian.

 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2018 by anatess2

[NeuroTypical]

I know it's hard to have long memories, but... hey everyone... if you think about it, you really do understand that meddling in other nation's affairs (including their elections) is what all nations do, and have done since the dawn of time.  Right?  I mean, when you take two seconds to think about it, you already knew that, yes?

Remember a few years back, talk of the "Arab Spring" and all those Islamic countries experiencing regime-changing uprisings?  Think really hard - do you recall any news about the "Muslim Brotherhood" in Egypt, and all the left was rallying behind Obama, and all the right was ticked at him?  It's because Obama was meddling in the governmental affairs of Egypt.

Remember a few years before that, all the news stories with happy Iraqi people with purple fingers?  The first time they'd ever been able to vote in their country ever?  That was due to Bush interfering with Iraqi government affairs.

And I know at least one of you can remember like a generation or two ago.  Think USSR.  Think Russia.  Do you remember anything about pictures of a red-cheeked Boris Yeltsin standing on a tank and shouting?  Nobody probably remembers - but Pres Bill Clinton was using as much power as he could possibly use, to pick someone to rule Russia that we wanted.  

The next time you start falling for the lowbrow "news for the ignorant masses" stories about Russian bots influencing our votes, or whatever - just try really hard to think about the reality of the situation.  On a geopolitical scale, everyone does it to everyone else as much as they can.  And they always have, since Adam & Eve got kicked out of the garden.

Anatess is spot on about Trump.  We hired a businessman.  He's doing business with the world, working the best deal for his team that he can.  And yeah, no really, his team is you and me.  

Edited July 18, 2018 by NeuroTypical

[anatess2]

2 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

Life is about to get more expensive! Trade Wars are beginning. 

Yes.  It's gonna get more expensive for us non-Americans unless our own leadership starts to get smarter and realize the American consumer gravy-train is not easy-peasy-access anymore and now needs prime-pumping.

For Americans - lucky them.  If you're thinking... the sky is about to fall on trade!  Hah hah... like it hasn't fallen already over the US economy in the past decades.  It's about time somebody does something about it.

In the meantime, I am super enjoying the $1=PhP53-and-rising exchange rate.  Dollar earners are going Whoa Momma!

Edited July 18, 2018 by anatess2

[anatess2]

3 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

3.4 million jobs since election night, popular tax cuts, interest rates finally rising, people paying less in taxes and payrolls going up, stuff getting said to the UN and NATO and Dems and the News media that we've all been thinking for decades, Gorsuch and the other guy - waaaaaaaaay too many good things happening for any subduing to happen.

Just, dang.  Don't bash Americans when you're standing next to Putin.  Bash Putin.

Bash Americans who are trying to deligitimize your negotiations with Putin.  Remember, in a negotiation table, there's you and there's the other side.  If you're going to sit on the other side, it doesn't matter if you're an American.  You're "foe".

This guy has been listing Trump's accomplishments from the conservative perspective (of course, if you're left-wing some would be DagNabIt! instead of accomplishments).  Pastebin doesn't have live links.  They're all archived links that you'll have to copy-and-paste to a browser if you want to follow the link (source).  It's quite a long list.

https://pastebin.com/BcSAGmDf

 

[Guest Godless]

Looks like our plan to to win the trade war involves $12 in farm subsidies  to offset losses due to tariffs. I'm no economist, but it seems to me that if you have to pay billions of dollars to farmers to keep your tariffs from shutting them down, then maybe your tariffs weren't a very good idea. I wonder if Trump has a similar plan to recoup the losses of manufacturing companies being hurt by steel and aluminum tariffs. 

[anatess2]

1 minute ago, Godless said:

Looks like our plan to to win the trade war involves $12 in farm subsidies  to offset losses due to tariffs. I'm no economist, but it seems to me that if you have to pay billions of dollars to farmers to keep your tariffs from shutting them down, then maybe your tariffs weren't a very good idea. I wonder if Trump has a similar plan to recoup the losses of manufacturing companies being hurt by steel and aluminum tariffs. 

That would be true if the only trade agreement we have with China is farm subsidies.  $12billion in farm subsidies aid to correct the $375 billion US-China trade deficit.  Do the math.

Steel and aluminum has a big US market especially with the new edict to lessen the dependency of the US military to foreign materials.

[NeuroTypical]

Just sayin... 

 

[anatess2]

Who'dathunk that threatening to increase tariffs lead to free and fair trade?

https://www.agweb.com/article/update-eu-agrees-to-buy-more-us-soybeans/

"President Donald Trump and European Union leaders announced Wednesday they have agreed to work toward "zero tariffs" and "zero subsidies" on non-automobile goods and would work to resolve U.S. tariffs on steel and aluminum imports that have roiled European markets.

The president, in a hastily called Rose Garden statement with European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, said the EU had agreed to buy "a lot of soybeans" and increase its imports of liquefied natural gas from the U.S. Juncker, meanwhile, said the U.S. and EU had agreed to hold off on further tariffs as part of trade talks aimed at averting a crippling trade dispute involving the lucrative automobile market."

[NeuroTypical]

On 7/24/2018 at 12:57 PM, Godless said:

I'm no economist, but

[today's news is doing all the replying here]

 

 

On 7/24/2018 at 12:57 PM, Godless said:

I wonder if Trump has a similar plan to recoup the losses of manufacturing companies being hurt by steel and aluminum tariffs. 

I think he called this his "reply to Godless tweet". 

Edited July 27, 2018 by NeuroTypical