Utah school requires girls to say "Yes" to all boys who ask them to dance.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

10 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

 A gentleman according to Blast from the Past is someone who always tries to make sure the people around him are as comfortable as possible.  

I love that movie and that line.   

[anatess2]

1 minute ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I love that movie and that line.   

One of my favorites!  

[Guest]

16 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Serious question:  I thought LDS youth were not to date until they are 16. What's with a school in predominantly LDS Utah forcing 12-year-olds to dance? Also, if a child is being taught to only date within their faith, are they going to force the girl to say yes to the boy her parents/church are telling her to say no to?  Biggest question of all:  Why is this school sticking to this absurd policy now that it's been outed???

Well... you see... it's like this... the girl... er... uhm... is nice... and ... 

Hey, wow.  The medallion and stuff...

So, gay marriage, huh?

[NightSG]

18 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

You've got to remember that my elders were quite certain dancing led to pregnancy.

Only if you do it right.

[NightSG]

4 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Male and male dancing or Female and Female dancing (unless you're a homosexual) kinda defeats that entire concept

It's uncomfortable at first, but I have to say that - purely as an instructional tool - it can be quite productive.  Both learning what your partner should see and feel from you, and (in my case) learning to lead a partner who was 6'6" came in handy later.  (Though so far the tallest woman I've had on a dance floor was 6'2".  I know one who's 6'0", but likes to wear 4-6" heels, so I may try to drag her to a dance someday.)

Of course, I also consider aikido and judo instruction to be useful on the dance floor.  (Part of it is learning to make someone step where you want them to step through gentle control of their balance, which comes in handy with some dance partners.)

[Guest]

1 minute ago, NightSG said:

I know one who's 6'0", but likes to wear 4-6" heels

For a minute I read that as 4'-6" heels.  WHOA! MAMMA!!

[mordorbund]

17 hours ago, Carborendum said:

For a minute I read that as 4'-6" heels.  WHOA! MAMMA!!

And I read it as four 6" heels.

[eVa]

On 2/14/2018 at 9:12 AM, NeuroTypical said:

You marry who you date

[mordorbund]

 

6 minutes ago, eVa said:

On 2/14/2018 at 10:12 AM, NeuroTypical said:

"You marry who you date".

 

Hooray! Another supporter of arranged marriages!!!

[GroundedDreamer]

I don't say yes to all dates now, I wouldn't say yes to dancing with all guys at a dance, I wouldn't want my daughter to.   This isn't to say I don't want her to be a pleasant person.  

[Sunday21]

On 2018-02-13 at 10:17 PM, Vort said:

What a horrible article. Seriously. It was embarrassing even to read, like something written by a clueless Seattle liberal. The author is obviously a woman who loathes human beings and the physical communication they use with their children. What a hideously ugly world she lives in,  and wants to impose on everyone else. If I didn't know better, I'd say she was some foul-mouthed, pink-haired uber-Leftist who writes for The Stranger.

Oh, wait...

 

I have never been to Utah. I am becoming curious as to the social customs of the U-people. Specifically, just what does dancing look like in Utah? How...umh ‘involved’ is the process and is it necessary to remove clothing?

Specifically, how does performing a series of unrythmic physical jerks somewhere in the vicinity of another person constitute ‘DATING’? Far be it from me, , but I don’t recall this activity involving physical contact. As I recall it involved less physical contact than a handshake and was frequently performed in a samesex group of 6 or more. What on earth are you people up to?  

[Sunday21]

6 hours ago, GroundedDreamer said:

I don't say yes to all dates now, I wouldn't say yes to dancing with all guys at a dance, I wouldn't want my daughter to.   This isn't to say I don't want her to be a pleasant person.  

Hi @GroundedDreamer. So pleased that you are here! Welcome! 

[Traveler]

 

I am having difficulty understanding the reaction.  Both from the parent in the article and so many posters in this forum.  Note – this is not saying no to going to the dance – it is saying no to being on the dance floor with a certain guy.

Come on people.  When I was in 6th grade and we were being taught to dance - we were told who our partners were – yah, when I was in 6th grade I was the smallest kid in 6th grade with the exception of a girl that was shorter than me.  I had to dance with girls that were a foot taller than me.  In High School we had dance cards and the guys would fill out the card for the girl they brought – no choice for the girls there.  And the girl choice dances – they filled out the dance card and the guys had no choice there.

In 6th grade I never got to dance with the one girl my size.  We also had to dance for a May Day celebration and I was assigned a partner – no choice allowed by anybody.    BTW in high school it was not uncommon for someone to bring a gun to school but you know what?  In my entire generation no student ever brought a gun to school to shoot another student.  I wonder what has changed?????

 

The Traveler

[anatess2]

On 2/16/2018 at 3:01 PM, Traveler said:

 

  I wonder what has changed?????

 

The Traveler

Women can vote now. 

 

[Traveler]

3 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Women can vote now. 

 

This reminds me of Winston Churchill who was once told that by the year 2000 women would rule the world.  His response was – still?

 

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

On ‎2‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 12:01 PM, Traveler said:

 

I am having difficulty understanding the reaction.  Both from the parent in the article and so many posters in this forum.  Note – this is not saying no to going to the dance – it is saying no to being on the dance floor with a certain guy.

Come on people.  When I was in 6th grade and we were being taught to dance - we were told who our partners were – yah, when I was in 6th grade I was the smallest kid in 6th grade with the exception of a girl that was shorter than me.  I had to dance with girls that were a foot taller than me.  In High School we had dance cards and the guys would fill out the card for the girl they brought – no choice for the girls there.  And the girl choice dances – they filled out the dance card and the guys had no choice there.

In 6th grade I never got to dance with the one girl my size.  We also had to dance for a May Day celebration and I was assigned a partner – no choice allowed by anybody.    BTW in high school it was not uncommon for someone to bring a gun to school but you know what?  In my entire generation no student ever brought a gun to school to shoot another student.  I wonder what has changed?????

 

The Traveler

Being assigned a partner in a dance class is quite different from being at a social dance, and being told that you must say YES, and dance with any boy who asks you are two very different scenarios. Normally, when a girl says yes to a boy's request to dance it can be understood to imply some level of interest. So, there's a certain creepy vibe to this. Honestly, I wondered if the faculty who came up with this rule were trying to rectify their own childhood feelings of rejection and social awkwardness. Non-jocks institute the participation awards, and those who struggled with dating institute the everyone-says-yes-to-be-nice rule.  BTW, the school apparently saw the wisdom of the mob, and backtracked on their policy, so all ends well. Sanity reigns--at least for a season.

[Traveler]

13 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Being assigned a partner in a dance class is quite different from being at a social dance, and being told that you must say YES, and dance with any boy who asks you are two very different scenarios. Normally, when a girl says yes to a boy's request to dance it can be understood to imply some level of interest. So, there's a certain creepy vibe to this. Honestly, I wondered if the faculty who came up with this rule were trying to rectify their own childhood feelings of rejection and social awkwardness. Non-jocks institute the participation awards, and those who struggled with dating institute the everyone-says-yes-to-be-nice rule.  BTW, the school apparently saw the wisdom of the mob, and backtracked on their policy, so all ends well. Sanity reigns--at least for a season.

We are talking about 6 graders - I do not think they realize the differences you are talking about - I also do not think the such young children have the brain development to logically handle intelligently that well as who in their class should be danced with.

 

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

45 minutes ago, Traveler said:

We are talking about 6 graders - I do not think they realize the differences you are talking about - I also do not think the such young children have the brain development to logically handle intelligently that well as who in their class should be danced with.

 

The Traveler

Perhaps for you and me. Girls still had cooties when I was that age. Today, media has made most 12-years-olds all too aware. Is there much confusion at that age? Of course! In a way, that's what makes this so creepy. By 8th-grade, the students would use rather unsanctified words to tell the faculty/administration where they could take their "no-saying-no" rule. 12-year-olds kinda get the  whole dating thing, but are often very uncertain, and will tend to follow the lead they are given.

[Maureen]

16 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Perhaps for you and me. Girls still had cooties when I was that age. Today, media has made most 12-years-olds all too aware. Is there much confusion at that age? Of course! In a way, that's what makes this so creepy. By 8th-grade, the students would use rather unsanctified words to tell the faculty/administration where they could take their "no-saying-no" rule. 12-year-olds kinda get the  whole dating thing, but are often very uncertain, and will tend to follow the lead they are given.

@prisonchaplain, what exactly do you think is creepy? School dances are normal school activities, they are really not that complicated. I remember my first school dance in junior high (grade 7/12 years old) and it was fun and definitely not creepy. Could it be your religious ideas that sees dancing as somewhat sinful (don't know what other word to use) that gives you that impression? And like mentioned before, school dances do not equate to dating.

M.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Maureen

[prisonchaplain]

13 minutes ago, Maureen said:

@prisonchaplain, what exactly do you think is creepy? School dances are normal school activities, they are really not that complicated. I remember my first school dance in junior high (grade 7/12 years old) and it was fun and definitely not creepy. Could it be your religious ideas that sees dancing as somewhat sinful (don't know what other word to use) that gives you that impression? And like mentioned before, school dances do not equate to dating.

M.

It is creepy that a 12/13 year old girl is told she must say yes to a boy's request to dance, even if she does not like the boy, or might be afraid of him. No dancing with a boy is not going on a date. However, for many girls, saying yes offers some indication of interest in the boy. For girls, 12-14 is a time that can be very emotional, confusing, and awkward. Making them do anything remotely associated with romance or relationship-building with a boy, through adult coercion is, yes CREEPY. Thus sayeth the dad of three teen daughters.

Edited February 21, 2018 by prisonchaplain

[Maureen]

31 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

It is creepy that a 12/13 year old girl is told she must say yes to a boy's request to dance, even if she does not like the boy, or might be afraid of him. No dancing with a boy is not going on a date. However, for many girls, saying yes offers some indication of interest in the boy. For girls, 12-14 is a time that can be very emotional, confusing, and awkward. Making them do anything remotely associated with romance or relationship-building with a boy, through adult coercion is, yes CREEPY. Thus sayeth the dad of three teen daughters.

That is definitely more clear in what you meant. And yes I think it was a mistake on the part of the school to initially make that rule. My understanding from reading another article is that the rule to say "yes" was for boys too. All students had dance cards and they listed on their cards who they would like to dance with. Although I will say that school dances are not set up to introduce romance to pre-teens and teenagers; they are just an all around social function for everyone.

M.

[prisonchaplain]

Call me sexist, but I don't think boys would be as creeped out by having to dance with an unpreferred girl as the girls would be having to say yes to the boys. Further, very few boys would be frightened by a girl, but girls could more easily find a boy worrisome (a stalker-type, etc.).

[anatess2]

6 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Call me sexist, but I don't think boys would be as creeped out by having to dance with an unpreferred girl as the girls would be having to say yes to the boys. Further, very few boys would be frightened by a girl, but girls could more easily find a boy worrisome (a stalker-type, etc.).

This is only generally true in adults or late teens.

Edited February 21, 2018 by anatess2

[Traveler]

On ‎2‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 8:01 AM, prisonchaplain said:

Perhaps for you and me. Girls still had cooties when I was that age. Today, media has made most 12-years-olds all too aware. Is there much confusion at that age? Of course! In a way, that's what makes this so creepy. By 8th-grade, the students would use rather unsanctified words to tell the faculty/administration where they could take their "no-saying-no" rule. 12-year-olds kinda get the  whole dating thing, but are often very uncertain, and will tend to follow the lead they are given.

 

Let me bring up something – when our society supports a “no I will not dance with you” attitude with young girls and a certain boy finds himself rejected by everyone he asks and then teased by all the other boys for being a social misfit – if such an experience in 6th grade continues until the little boy becomes a confused young man in high school – if such a young man would not fight an urge to take an assault weapon to school and open fire.  

 

The Traveler

[Vort]

Re: Girls accepting a boy's dance invitation

There is a memorable point in Pride and Prejudice where Darcy, the male protagonist (and at this point apparently little more than a callous jerk) asks Elizabeth, the story's heroine, to dance. Elizabeth struggles to figure out how to say no, and finally is forced to agree to the dance. The etiquette here is interesting:

• If the lady simply does not want to dance that evening, she can reply, "No, thank you, I'm not dancing tonight."
• If the lady has been dancing  but does not wish to dance any more that evening, she can reply, "No, thank you, I'm finished dancing for tonight."
• If the lady has already been asked to dance, she can reply, "No, thank you, Mr. Doe has this dance." (Sometimes women would carry "dance cards" that they would fill in with the names of the gentlemen with whom they agreed to dance specific dances. The "playlist" of music, at least the type of music and the dance involved, were known before the event took place.)
• If the lady is unmarried but engaged, it is understood that she might be saving her dances for her intended. I believe women in such a situation were granted some leeway in normal matters of etiquette.

These are the only polite ways that she can decline a man's dance invitation. Doesn't matter if he's married, old, poor, of inferior breeding, and/or suffering from halitosis and severe body odor. If she pointedly refuses a man's dance invitation and then dances later with others, she is in violation of polite society, and only in extreme circumstances would her action not be considered vulgar, tasteless, rude, and offensive. Decent manners of polite society demanded that she accept any and all invitations to dance. Had Elizabeth refused Darcy's invitation, etiquette would have demanded that she refrain from dancing the rest of the evening -- which she didn't want to do. So the lesser of the evils before her was to go ahead and dance with Darcy.

Admittedly, we have fallen a vast distance from the qualities of the dances of yore such as predictability, innocence (of the dance itself), and most of all, fun. Yes, it is true, dances two hundred years ago were fun affairs, not awkward butt-shaking and overt sexual writhing. I see such events as the OP mentioned an attempt to get back to simple etiquette. Sadly, I am afraid this particular point of etiquette might be long dead and buried in the past. The very idea that a woman would have the "right to refuse" a man's dance invitation would have been -- and should be -- a point of astonished embarrassment to any civilized, well-mannered person. But 21st-century American dances are not 19th-century British affairs, and manners seem to have all but disappeared.

(For some bizarre reason, this post originally showed up on a thread I had not even read and wasn't intending to respond to. Sorry about that.)