Welfare: Church and Government

[Fether]

11 minutes ago, TookieClothspin said:

There is a difference between being "poor" and making decisions that will make you even more "poor."  

 

Regardless, we are in no position to Condemn other’s needs because we think “they brought this on themselves”, not should we withhold needs. Now there are probably many exceptions to this.

I’m simply stating that we believe in carrying for the poor and needy, but we also seem to be condemning everyone that uses welfare.

[TookieClothspin]

On 3/5/2018 at 9:57 AM, Fether said:

Regardless, we are in no position to Condemn other’s needs because we think “they brought this on themselves”, not should we withhold needs. Now there are probably many exceptions to this.

I’m simply stating that we believe in carrying for the poor and needy, but we also seem to be condemning everyone that uses welfare.

who said anything about condemning other's needs?  when someone is in a bad spot, there is a difference between choosing to dig the hole and choosing to claw your way up and out. 

church welfare is for maintaining life, not maintaining a lifestyle.  during my time called to a relief society presidency, i had to be directly involved with the task of working with the bishop determining need when the RS president was away for an extended amount of time.  it's probably the most awkward and uncomfortable thing i've ever had to do for other people.  it's awkward on both ends to tell someone "no, we can't get you such and such food item because it's a luxury and not a dietary need."  it's also awkward to catalog someone's pantry and help them come up with an acceptable meal plan that utilizes what they have along with selected items from the bishops storehouse.  all the awkwardness ends up being worth it when people learn the hard lessons and can eventually make it on their own. 

it's much easier to just go with an ebt card and get whatever you want.  the problem is that doesn't teach you to be self sufficient nor does it promote nearly the amount of awareness or frugality necessary to dig yourself out of a bad spot.  the way distribution of church welfare works is far different.  

 

[Guest]

On 3/5/2018 at 9:57 AM, Fether said:

Regardless, we are in no position to Condemn other’s needs because we think “they brought this on themselves”, not should we withhold needs. Now there are probably many exceptions to this.

I’m simply stating that we believe in carrying for the poor and needy, but we also seem to be condemning everyone that uses welfare.

I'd rather say that I condemn the existence of the system, not necessarily those who use it.  But I also believe that those in multi-generational welfare families are simply messed up.  Whether a result of the system, or a problem with the family, or they just got sucked in and don't know/comprehend a way out, I don't know.  Case by case.  And, yes, I also believe there are a good number of them who bring it on themselves. 

But I mainly don't like the fact that the system even exists.  Take away the system and many of society's ills would diminish.

[wenglund]

7 hours ago, Carborendum said:

And, yes, I also believe there are a good number of them who bring it on themselves. 

 

I am familiar with a person whose prime directive is to get things for free (i.e. have other people pay for things where possible). She has no qualms taking church welfare and living in the homeless shelter for years even though she has nearly a half million dollars in the bank.

Granted, there is likely some serous mental/emotional illness involved in her case, though I have witnessed similar attitudes with multiple, seemingly sane panhandlers I have come across ove the last several decades.

Nevertheless, I suspect that the times we live in, and the kind of people living in our times, would be unimaginable to King Benjamin, and well outside the bounds of the charitable precepts he preached in his day.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-