Carol Lynn Pearson's book

[Jane_Doe]

2 minutes ago, jewels8 said:

Brigham Young gave this at least as his opinion

Frankly, the Gospel isn't determined by any man's opinion.  

[jewels8]

5 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

I'm not certain it is selfish.  It probably has a little bit of jealousy.  My personal thoughts is that, between a man and a wife, it is okay to be jealous in a way that makes you want your spouse to be loyal to you and only to you.  When you trust that your spouse will be yours and only yours, regardless of whether it is for time, for eternity, or for both, that can create a special bond between the two. 

In this life, when an individual breaks that bond in whatever fashion (pornography, emotional affairs, adultery, etc) it creates a great deal of pain, hurt, and anguish for the other spouse in most cases.  They feel betrayed and mortified. 

It is no surprise that many would feel this way when thinking about their spouse and a situation where their spouse might ever be married or sealed to another individual without them. 

It may be selfishness. 

I know that, because the church decided to let women be sealed in the temple after death to any man they had ever been married to, that has not sat well with me.  In the same light, my wife did not feel comfortable with the idea of me ever being married to another woman if she died first.  Thus, we saw how this idea could hurt the other.  She has said she will not marry another if I die first, out of respect for me, and I likewise said I am more than happy to spend my time among my books and history library.  For us (and this doesn't have to apply to anyone else), this assurance that we are ours, and only ours, is a great assurance currently. 

I am also glad to know that I and my wife are not alone in this feeling.  If we turn the pages back in the history of the church we find that there are many who also felt similarly.  Of course there were those who gladly ran with the idea of polygamy, but we also read multiple accounts where those who were called to be in polygamous marriages found the idea revolting and very difficult to participate in.  In fact, many felt almost like Abraham when he was called to sacrifice Issac.  These were righteous men and women who held chastity and marriage high in their ideals.  They were very loyal to the church.  If they had a great difficulty accepting it, even when commanded to do so, I do not feel so bad that I and others may have difficulties if we think about it in a modern sense.

I am blessed and I am lucky in that thus far, I do not have to be brought to the same trial as many of the early members of the church.  In our modern time, I am not given the choice of following the commandment of this or not.  Instead, my wife, who hates the idea of polygamy probably more than @jewels8 has expressed, does not have to also suffer the sadness and torment of this idea.  Likewise, I do not have to suffer the great pain it would be if I had to share my wife with someone else. 

It is not evil to have these feelings, and I think it to be quite common.  It may mean I am not ready or as righteous as others who are willing to sacrifice all they have in an instant no matter what the Lord asks.  I admit that in many areas I am still quite uncharitable.  The Law of Consecration is another where, though I understand the concept, I am probably glad I have not been called to participate in it as of yet.  Not all of us are ready to give all we have in this very moment.  I may be older, but I also admit I have a very long way to go. 

However, these feelings of hardness towards the idea of polygamy, I think, are common among many in the LDS church.  It was not an easy principle back when it was instituted in the church, and it is not an easy thing to think about today when we ponder it.  There are some that may be ready to leap feet first back into it, or would be ready if asked, but for me, right now I am glad that it is not something I or my wife are asked to do.  Luckily, currently, we have no commandment that we must do these things in the church, and I am happy it is not something that I must make a choice about or not at this time in our modern world.

I really appreciate your comment.  It is refreshing and uplifting to me to see a man who cares about his wife's feelings and a man who feels that way.  

[jewels8]

8 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Can we say agree that she's probably an intelligent woman who's thought things through with prayer and study?  

That we need to be sensitive and respecting her choice, rather than condemning her/her choice with comments to the jest of "she deserves better" or "she'll probably regret it later"?   Such comments are extremely disrespectful of her and insensitive. 

No, its not disrespectful and insensitive.  If you took it that way, I'm sorry, that you took it that way, but I said it because I am being respectful and sensitive.  She is a woman.  It will be hard.  There's nothing more to be said.  We all came to earth.  We all have challenges.  We all have joys .  We all have our ups and downs.  We all have strenghths and weaknesses.  We all have room for growth and trials.  You don't need to judge me.  Facts are facts.  It will be hard in some ways.  We don't know how, but it will.  It will be a new experience.  We all chose to come to earth.  We will all end up somewhere in the next life and we will all make the best of whatever comes our way, but even with prayer and study, it doesn't guarantee it will be a breeze.  God never said it would be easy.

[mirkwood]

12 minutes ago, jewels8 said:

It is refreshing and uplifting to me to see a man who cares about his wife's feelings and a man who feels that way.  

You must live in a dreary world if this is your perspective.

[Jane_Doe]

5 minutes ago, jewels8 said:

No, its not disrespectful and insensitive.  If you took it that way, I'm sorry, that you took it that way, but I said it because I am being respectful and sensitive. 

That's why I was asking for clarification on what you meant.  (You're coming off as extremely judgmental, and I'd like to clear that up).  

5 minutes ago, jewels8 said:

 She is a woman.  It will be hard.  There's nothing more to be said.  We all came to earth.  We all have challenges.  We all have joys .  We all have our ups and downs.  We all have strenghths and weaknesses.  We all have room for growth and trials.  You don't need to judge me.  Facts are facts.  It will be hard in some ways.  We don't know how, but it will.  It will be a new experience.  We all chose to come to earth.  We will all end up somewhere in the next life and we will all make the best of whatever comes our way, but even with prayer and study, it doesn't guarantee it will be a breeze.  God never said it would be easy.

Do you look down on Wendy for her choice or think her marriage is lesser- that she "deserves" better?

Edited March 2, 2018 by Jane_Doe

[jewels8]

No, but it really is none of your business what i think, and it doesn't matter anyway,  Contention is not the issue here.  Just leave it alone, ok? 

 

[Jane_Doe]

Just now, jewels8 said:

No, but it really is none of your business what i think, and it doesn't matter anyway,  Contention is not the issue here.  Just leave it alone, ok? 

 

I was/am simply trying to understand your thoughts on this matter, since you started a thread to express them.  I'm sorry if that offended- that was the opposite of my intentions.  

[jewels8]

Its ok, no worries.

[jewels8]

13 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

You must live in a dreary world if this is your perspective.

No, I don't, I just appreciate a man who treats his wife with respect.

[jewels8]

10 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

I 100% agree that we need to be sensitive.  Could you explain to me how you are being sensitive to Wendy in this quote:

To me, this quote appears very insensitive to the love Wendy feels and saying she never should have married the man she loves.  But maybe I'm misunderstanding you or getting the wrong vibe (internet is really good at that).  Hence why I'm asking for clarification on how you are being sensitive to Wendy here.  

Sorry, not that I meant to come across as insensitive.  One thing I heard of  once, from the other perspective, was a widow who was sealed for eternity and a man was looking for a perspective wive to marry for eternity, I think he was on the phone with her, if I'm not mistaken.  When he heard she was already sealed to her deceased husband, he bluntly replied, "you are of no use to me"  and hung up.  I guess what this illustrates is how insensitive this whole thing, no matter who someone is,  can become, when people think of it in terms of just the thing itself and not the people involved.  And I am just trying to think of how people may feel , and not just now , but later too.  Anyways, hopefully that helps.  This is something I read that was a preview or something about Carol Lynn Pearson's book.

[jewels8]

On 2/28/2018 at 6:26 PM, Just_A_Guy said:

If you view Adam and Eve as the ideal for romantic love, then naturally you understand why Pearson’s support of gay marriage constitutes the embrace of such a pernicious falsehood, right, Jewels8?

Right?

I have never heard of Pearson supporting gay marriage.  She divorced her husband when he was gay and he died of Aids.  She wrote a book about it and from what I heard she does not support being gay.  You can love a gay person without believing and supporting their lifestyle.  I do not support gay lifestyles.  But I do think we should treat our gay brothers and sisters with Christ-like love.  I do believe in traditional marriage between a man and a woman.

[jewels8]

1 hour ago, Jane_Doe said:

Frankly, the Gospel isn't determined by any man's opinion.  

That is true, but because he was a prophet, what he says , many may take as the truth.  I think a prophet needs to be careful what he states, although I really don't know when he said it or the particulars about it.

[jewels8]

Just now, jewels8 said:

That is true, but because he was a prophet, what he says , many may take as the truth.  I think a prophet needs to be careful what he states, although I really don't know when he said it or the particulars about it.

And in that same "vein"?, anyone quoting this kind of stuff should be careful what they are saying.  Unfortunately, that is easier said then done.

[jewels8]

8 hours ago, wenglund said:

This is like calling marriage, itself, "legalized prostitution."  Both are lacking in comprehension.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I apologize for coming across as harsh.  It is too bad that there are these kinds of things at all that exist in the hearts of evil people.(for ex.  prostititution and adultery)

[jewels8]

In another place, and I don't want to try to find it, I wrote about Carol, how I replied I have never seen a reference to her supporting gays in an inappropriate way.  I wanted to add that her ex husband, I believe asked for her to care for him, so she cared for him when he was dying of Aids, but that does not mean she supported a gay lifestyle.  She showed Christ-like compassion to him even though he chose a path that caused her pain and that she did not believe in.  

[The Folk Prophet]

On 2/28/2018 at 10:20 AM, Just_A_Guy said:

Ted Bundy was also a Mormon in good standing.

What the what?

I mean I know he was baptized. but "In good standing?"

Really?

[The Folk Prophet]

On 2/28/2018 at 10:20 AM, Just_A_Guy said:

I have no problem with approaching difficult issues with sensitivity; 

I do.

[Just_A_Guy]

Just now, The Folk Prophet said:

What the what?

I mean I know he was baptized. but "In good standing?"

Really?

My point exactly.

[jewels8]

Just for the record, I will reiterate it again here, I do not support gay marriage.  But I do believe in being kind to our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters.  I do believe in traditional marriage between a man and a woman.  I do believe in celestial marriage.  I do believe in eternal families.  I believe a family should live a clean,  life.  T'hat there should be love, peace in the home, that the Gospel should be taught and everyone should be respected, loved and cared for.

[The Folk Prophet]

On 2/28/2018 at 4:18 PM, Vort said:

The one sentence in your screed with which all parties on this list will agree.

I disagree.

[The Folk Prophet]

22 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

Not only is polygamy not a requirement for salvation, God's greatest gift to us is agency: we each have the choice of who to be married to.  God will never/cannot force anyone into a relationship with another person, let alone a polygamous one.  

This statement has a flaw to it's logic.

Replace polygamy with baptism and see how it holds up.

If it is a requirement, it is. If it isn't it isn't. Agency is the right to accept and be saved or reject and be damned. It's not about rejecting and being saved anyway (IF something is a requirement).

[askandanswer]

1 hour ago, jewels8 said:

No, but it really is none of your business what i think, and it doesn't matter anyway,  Contention is not the issue here.  Just leave it alone, ok? 

 

I have no comment to make at this stage on the substantive subject of this thread but I find the above comment a little odd. Isn't it the case that most posts on this forum are simply sharing with others what we think?

[The Folk Prophet]

21 hours ago, jewels8 said:

Polygamy has nothing to do with salvation.  It has nothing to do with the priesthood, it has nothing to do with tithing, the ordinances of the temple

Vort mentioned your ignorance. It is shining through here.

Polygamy is/was, and will be an order of the priesthood, enacted through temple covenants in the temples, and was REQUIRED for Joseph Smith and others for their salvation, to the point of an angel coming to threaten Joseph with a sword and destruction if he did not take it upon himself.

Nothing to do with?

You are uninformed on a great many things in this matter.

Not a requirement for all...that is certainly unsettled. But "nothing" to do with. Hardly.

[The Folk Prophet]

21 hours ago, jewels8 said:

Is it possible for a woman's exaltation to be taken away, simply for refusing to not want her husband to have a 2nd wife, even if she has obeyed every other commandment?

Yes.

Example: Emma.

Edited March 2, 2018 by The Folk Prophet

[jewels8]

Just now, The Folk Prophet said:

Yes.

 

Just now, The Folk Prophet said:

Yes.

And where do you get your source for the answer from?

Just for the record, I will reiterate it again here, I do not support gay marriage.  But I do believe in being kind to our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters.  I do believe in traditional marriage between a man and a woman.  I do believe in celestial marriage.  I do believe in eternal families.  I believe a family should live a clean,  life.  T'hat there should be love, peace in the home, that the Gospel should be taught and everyone should be respected, loved and cared for.