The Fate of the Feminist Movement by Euripides

[Guest]

https://www.amazon.com/Bacchae-Focus-Classical-Library-Euripides/dp/0941051420/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1522854694&sr=8-4&keywords=bacchae&dpID=51TEwRo94aL&preST=_SY344_BO1,204,203,200_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

[Sunday21]

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

https://www.amazon.com/Bacchae-Focus-Classical-Library-Euripides/dp/0941051420/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1522854694&sr=8-4&keywords=bacchae&dpID=51TEwRo94aL&preST=_SY344_BO1,204,203,200_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

I just read the plot on Wiki. I am surprised this is not a movie!

[Guest]

56 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

I just read the plot on Wiki. I am surprised this is not a movie!

Well, they're trying.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt7638464/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

First a short to test the waters.  Then onto a movie.  But notice that they completely destroy the original meaning of the story and change it into a Feminist storyline.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

59 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

I just read the plot on Wiki. I am surprised this is not a movie!

Good idea reading the plot on Wiki.   I like this quote from Wiki, "The Bacchae seems to be saying that it is perilous to deny or ignore the human desire for Dionysian experience; those who are open to the experience will find spiritual power, and those who suppress or repress the desire in themselves or others will transform it into a destructive force."  I agree.  

@Carborendum I don't get the connection you are making to feminism here.  Do you mean that Feminism is like the Dionysian Experience and that we ignore or fight it at our peril?    

[mordorbund]

8 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Good idea reading the plot on Wiki.   I like this quote from Wiki, "The Bacchae seems to be saying that it is perilous to deny or ignore the human desire for Dionysian experience; those who are open to the experience will find spiritual power, and those who suppress or repress the desire in themselves or others will transform it into a destructive force."  I agree.  

@Carborendum I don't get the connection you are making to feminism here.  Do you mean that Feminism is like the Dionysian Experience and that we ignore or fight it at our peril?    

If I were to compare any portion to modern feminism, it would be the next paragraph of the summary. Dionysus sets out to correct (or avenge, whatever you prefer) a legitimate slight, but continual finds more cause for offense and escalates to a disproportional (and extremely destructive) degree.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Good idea reading the plot on Wiki.   I like this quote from Wiki, "The Bacchae seems to be saying that it is perilous to deny or ignore the human desire for Dionysian experience; those who are open to the experience will find spiritual power, and those who suppress or repress the desire in themselves or others will transform it into a destructive force."  I agree.  

@Carborendum I don't get the connection you are making to feminism here.  Do you mean that Feminism is like the Dionysian Experience and that we ignore or fight it at our peril?    

The play is a metaphor for the classic battle (or war) of the sexes.  Nearly all of the Bacchae were women.  Only a few men IIRC were part of the group and they were not hypnotized as the women were.  They just wanted to be around the women in their crazed state.  And the Bacchae allowed it because they remained weak and subservient.  Sound like any feminist movements you know?

The ancient belief was that emotions were feminine traits and logic and reason were masculine traits.  This was not all male and female.  They considered men to be "mostly" masculine with some feminine and women to be "mostly" feminine with some masculine (interestingly, modern biology tells us that such is true when measuring male/female hormones).

The balance between logic and emotion as well as the balance of power between male and female was what had kept society together.  Men and women were different.  But there was a kind of equality between them as they filled their separate roles in society and family.

Dionysus (because he felt slighted) decided to upend that balance by ridding his/her followers (Dionysus is often treated as male, but is sometimes considered androgynous) of any logic and making all the women lose all reason and let their passions run everything.  At that point it was not about equality or balance.  It was about taking over and ridding society of anyone who dared to use reason to guide their decisions.

Death to everyone eventually led to the play's tragic conclusion.

Interestingly, there were two kinds of followers of Dionysus: Maenads and Bacchae.  Well, we know that there are some who are orchestrating the evils of third wave feminism and want nothing short of death or enslavement of all men.  Then we have those who follow the feminist movement simply because they are going along with something they think might have some good ideas and are oblivious to the evils that they are perpetuating.  Sounds like Maenads and Bacchae to me.

If feminism has its way, nothing but tragedy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTqLe7zmBpA

Edited April 4, 2018 by Guest

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Thanks for the explanation Carb.  I think that you have a mistaken idea about feminism though.  

Quote

Men and women were different.  But there was a kind of equality between them as they filled their separate roles in society and family.

Here's the problem.  Sure men and women are different, that's not a problem.  What is up for debate is whether or not there is truly any kind of equality.  Feminists would argue that we do not yet have equality. 

Feminism means different things to different people, and there are different "branches" of feminism.  One cannot simply make a blanket statement that it's bad, that's like saying government is bad.  Some governments are bad, some good, some in between, but we need government of we would have anarchy.  

Feminism is not all good or all bad.  Because of feminism women have the right to vote.  I am so grateful for the women who fought for approx 70 years to get that right for us.  Because of feminism today domestic violence is considered to be the evil that it is, and abusers can be and are often sent to jail.  I'm more than grateful for that.  

I just read a paper for school called Feminism in the Light of the Gospel of Jesus Christ by B. Kent Harrison and Mary Stovall Richards that defined feminism as "feminism advocates the equal treatment of women and men and states that discrimination in particular against women, does exist and should be eliminated.  Far from promoting the reverse tyranny of women over men, such feminism simply affirms the equal importance of each individual, regardless of sex."  

That is a definition of feminism that I can support.  FAIR did a panel on Mormon Feminism, and the first thing these ladies did was give their definition of feminism...because as I said it means different things to different people.  On this panel, I love Wendy Ulrich and Valerie Hudson.  They are both amazing women that I would love for my daughter to emulate.  They are Mormon Feminists and so am I. 

https://www.fairmormon.org/conference/august-2013/charity-never-faileth
 

Edited April 5, 2018 by LiterateParakeet

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

13 hours ago, mordorbund said:

If I were to compare any portion to modern feminism, it would be the next paragraph of the summary. Dionysus sets out to correct (or avenge, whatever you prefer) a legitimate slight, but continual finds more cause for offense and escalates to a disproportional (and extremely destructive) degree.

Thanks Mordorbund.  I had an assumption (which proved to be correct) about what his view of feminism was, but I decided not to assume, and to clarify first.  I decided to test my theory, by implying that I thought he meant the opposite of my assumptions....I was just doing that to give him a hard time.    

Edited April 5, 2018 by LiterateParakeet

[Guest]

5 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Thanks for the explanation Carb.  I think that you have a mistaken idea about feminism though.  

No, I don't. 

I love you, LP.  But you're wrong here.

5 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

 One cannot simply make a blanket statement that it's bad, that's like saying government is bad.  Some governments are bad, some good, some in between, but we need government of we would have anarchy.  

I know you well enough to believe that whatever you march for or protest for would be something that I'd probably support. But you are the exception, not the rule.

I'm well aware that feminism has changed over the years and there are different flavors, some of the old school that there are fewer problems with.  I just didn't feel like placing every disclaimer and qualifier in my already long description.  I had hoped that people would be able to make such distinctions on their own without the need to try to educate me on the exception when I'm talking about the rule.

GOVERNMENT:  You forget that I'm a libertarian.  I DO BELIEVE all government is bad.  At best, a form of government MAY be a necessary EVIL.  And while many who argue against a libertarian focus on the "necessary" (i.e. avoid anarchy) as you did, I focus on the "evil".  Yes, I know it is necessary.  I'll readily admit that.  But the vigilance of liberty requires that we focus on the evil to prevent a "good" government from becoming a bad one.

The US government under the Constitution has provided the world with the greatest advances and freedoms and prosperity the world has ever known.  Yes, as a libertarian, I admit that this government provided the framework and social order that allowed people to unleash their work ethic and creative genius to have all these things happen.  That doesn't mean we can take essentially an "all is well in Zion the US" attitude.  Why?  Because government is still evil.

In the same way, I see all feminism as bad, or if you will, a necessary evil in some cases.  True, as you point out, it got us women's suffrage.  Fantastic.  All for that.  No problem.  Great advance.  But that doesn't mean that the overall effect of feminism (when taken as a whole) has produced a net benefit. 

The overall effect of feminism has done several things that are the horror of our society today.

1) It has sexualized women in a manner that no man ever has.
2) It has normalized abortion child sacrifice in society to the point where people are openly declaring that little children may be killed because they aren't really alive until about a year or two old.  The value of life itself is down the toilet.
3) It has minimalized or outright rejected the importance of marriage and family as a cornerstone of society.  Women are encouraged to have careers, not just in addition to family life, but in place of it.

Are these evils worth the benefit of women's suffrage?

5 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Here's the problem.  Sure men and women are different, that's not a problem.  What is up for debate is whether or not there is truly any kind of equality.  Feminists would argue that we do not yet have equality. 

I believe you comment is absolutely correct -- that they argue that point.  But I believe feminists are mistaken because they're looking at the wrong thing.  Man is not without the woman, nor is the woman without the man in Christ Jesus.  This talks about our mortal lives as well as eternity.  But it is talking about marriage in either sphere.

How often do you ever hear any feminist talk about monogamous heterosexual marriage as being a GOOD thing?  I've heard it maybe twice as a side note AND ONLY when someone specifically points out the hypocrisy of a statement and asks the question about marriage.  Even then, the "agreement" that it is good is half-hearted at best.  Most of the time I hear feminists say it is a negative that has enslaved women for millennia.

Monogamous heterosexual marriage in a Judeo-Christian society has been the greatest equalizer among the sexes of any social order in history.  It is only in marriage that men and women are truly equal.  Here's the secret that feminists never say.  MEN are not equal to women anywhere else either.  Men are below women in many ways.  Men are above women in many ways.  It is only in marriage that men and women are truly equal. But feminists of all stripes consistently either downplay or outright reject the notion that marriage is good for women.  You, yourself, are a mild feminist of the first wave which most people have no problem with.  And I find you to be a very reasonable woman.  But even you don't talk much about marriage as an important facet in a woman's life.  And it certainly isn't an important plank in any feminist platform I've ever heard.  Because the underlying belief of any feminist is that men are inherently evil, while women are inherently good.

I have yet to hear any feminist organization apologize for any man who was falsely accused of sexual harassment or assault.  Why?  Because they don't really care.  All men are evil anyway.  If they were innocent here, that doesn't mean they were innocent.  I'm sure they committed some sort of sex crime against some other woman because men are evil that way.  So goes the narrative.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Carb, love you too, but I am not the one who is wrong here.   What you are describing is Radical Feminism, but there are many other types.  One study from 1997 said that most Feminists at that time were Liberal Feminists.   As I said before Feminism means different things to different people, and being a man, your definition is unlikely to carry any weight with women.  

I appreciate the vote of confidence, that you would likely support whatever march I would support.  I went to the Woman's March this year, it was a WONDERFUL experience.  Wanna join me next year?    LOL.  

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

How often do you ever hear any feminist talk about monogamous heterosexual marriage as being a GOOD thing? 

Again this is Radical Feminism you are talking about here, it does not define all Feminists.  And yes, I have heard Feminists  talk about marriage and family as a good thing.

Here in one example:  Big Ocean Women is a group that calls themselves "Maternal Feminists"
http://www.bigoceanwomen.org/maternal-feminism/

Another example is from Claudia Bushman's FAIR talk: 

"It is true that we hear an awful lot about family and marriage in our church. There is no question that this is hard on the single women who have very little choice in our society about whether to be married or not. But I look at the blitz about families as a defensive strategy. The Church preaches home, marriage, and family, not because they are the norm, but because they are the rapidly diminishing ideal. The nuclear family with the breadwinner father, the stay at home mother and the children, now accounts for less than a quarter of the population in the US. Our leaders stress family life because they are all too aware of casual divorce and abusive relationships, as well as extensive singlehood."   https://www.fairmormon.org/conference/august-2006/the-lives-of-mormon-women 

Here is an example from Meridian Magazine of a Mormon Feminist, Julie de Azevado Hanks talking about families:
https://ldsmag.com/a-pitfall-in-the-discussion-of-mormon-gender-roles/

Here is an example from LDSLiving, by Adam S. Miller called Defending the Family Means Defending Women and Rooting out Misogyny.  It begins:

"As “The Family: A Proclamation to the World” warns, if we fail to defend the family, “the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.”

In addition to arguing that differences between men and women are real and spiritually significant, the Proclamation also boldly claims that men and women are intended, by divine design, to be “equal partners.”  http://www.ldsliving.com/Why-Defending-the-Family-Includes-Rooting-Out-Misogyny/s/87546
 

Quote

And I find you to be a very reasonable woman.  But even you don't talk much about marriage as an important facet in a woman's life.

I guess I missed the thread where this was discussed, or your posts about how marriage is an important facet of a man's life.  

Perhaps you missed my post where I explained that I am in college and my major is MARRIAGE andFAMILY?   And yes, that has fueled my feminist ideas!  
 

Quote

I have yet to hear any feminist organization apologize for any man who was falsely accused of sexual harassment or assault.

Why should we apologize for that?  Do you as a man feel the need to apologize for every male shooter that goes on a rampage and kills people because you're both men?  Or you think because we want the abuse against women to stop, that somehow makes us responsible for false accuastion?  That doesn't make sense to me.  

I guess I missed it where a men's group set the example and apologized to women for the abuse we have endured at the hands of some men for centuries. Not only taped and abused, but blamed for it. Could you perhaps provide a link?

 

Edited April 5, 2018 by LiterateParakeet

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Just for fun...
 

 

[NeedleinA]

So are these the feminist then? 99% of the feminist I see on Youtube look pretty much like this going bananas  (Just for fun LP)

Edited April 5, 2018 by NeedleinA

[lostinwater]

12 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

So are these the feminist then? 99% of the feminist I see on Youtube look pretty much like this going bananas  (Just for fun LP)

Unfortunately, i think that's how they are viewed by a lot of people - more or less the point of that whole video.  Many are addressing real problems, though.  It's unfortunate - i think a lot of people hold the view that anyone who advocates for the correction of legitimate biases against women are inherently denigrating men in the attempt.  Not true.  

And please, don't misunderstand.  i'm not saying other biases or unfairness are not out there.  Rights movements don't generally just spontaneously create themselves with a cause, though.   i'll cite,  as an olive-branch example, the men's rights movement.  

[Guest MormonGator]

5 minutes ago, lostinwater said:

Unfortunately, i think that's how they are viewed by a lot of people - more or less the point of that whole video.  Many are addressing real problems, though.  It's unfortunate - i think a lot of people hold the view that anyone who advocates for the correction of legitimate biases against women are inherently denigrating men in the attempt.  Not true.  

 

I agree 100% with what you just said. I am not calling out anyone on here but it's not a war of men vs feminists. A small minority of women do insult men and view feminism as a war against men. And, a small amount of men probably do the same. 

 

[NeedleinA]

14 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

it's not a war of men vs feminists.

You are correct, it is women vs. feminists also.

 

[Guest MormonGator]

3 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

You are correct, it is women vs. feminists also.

 

I've seen this before. There is no doubt that some feminists (a minority) are over the top, thin skinned, and hate anyone who dares to disagree with them. The same feminist (again, a minority) also despise any woman who dares to think for herself on feminism. 

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

50 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

So are these the feminist then? 99% of the feminist I see on Youtube look pretty much like this going bananas  (Just for fun LP)

Well, I wasn't going to mention it, but yes that is me on the far left.     

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

2 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I've seen this before. There is no doubt that some feminists (a minority) are over the top, thin skinned, and hate anyone who dares to disagree with them. The same feminist (again, a minority) also despise any woman who dares to think for herself on feminism. 

True.  I have run into some of them!  But the same can be said about any group...including Mormons.   

[lostinwater]

11 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

You are correct, it is women vs. feminists also.

Thanks.

Please define feminism, though.

If your definition of "bad/extreme" feminism is legislating that 50% of all engineers be women and then recommending that any company that does not comply be fined, then i'm not in favor of that either.

If your definition of "bad/extreme" feminism is women being given the right to vote or become politicians, or Saudi women being given the right to drive, or removal of the stigma of a woman working full time, then unfortunately, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Edited April 5, 2018 by lostinwater

[Guest MormonGator]

5 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

True.  I have run into some of them!  But the same can be said about any group...including Mormons.   

100% correct. 

[JohnsonJones]

6 minutes ago, lostinwater said:

Thanks.

Please define feminism, though.

If your definition of feminism is legislating that 50% of all engineers be women and then recommending that any company that does not comply be fined, then i'm not in favor of that either.

If your definition of feminism is women being given the right to vote or become politicians, or Saudi women being given the right to drive, or removal of the stigma of a woman working full time, then unfortunately, we'll have to agree to disagree.

This is an interesting thing that you bring it up about engineers.  What follows is entirely off topic from the original post. 

I have seven kids, some of whom are daughters.  One of my daughters expressed a desire to be an engineer when she was growing up.  When asked about marriage she would point out that her goal in life was to become an engineer not a housewife.

Now, she DID get married young (or younger than what many are getting married today by a LOT) and now has four kids, but she went on and got a degree.  What was noted was that in some instances when she applied for a job, those positions had the salary notated publically on what certain officials were earning.  Almost every time she was offered a job in engineering and technical expertise it tended to be anywhere from $,2000 to $20,000 LESS than what the man who was working in the field prior to her was hired for.  In some instances where she and a male co-worker were hired at the same time, she would be hired at less of a salary.

In that light, it's not the idea that 50%of all engineers be women...BUT perhaps the following of which I've observed from my daughter being in a technical field SHOULD be corrected.

1) Men cannot scare women away from technical (including engineering) fields.  By this I mean there seems to be an allowable amount of sexual comment and commentary in offices.  When I've been in some offices when she isn't, even if they know I'm her father, at times there are many inappropriate comments that are crude and not appreciative of a woman's positive qualities.  I can see very much how women may feel sexual harassment or otherwise at such offices or classes and decide this is NOT a field they want to be in.  (On the otherhand, the office she works in currently, is outstanding.  I've never heard anything to that effect, and she hasn't had any complaints I've heard of.  She IS the only woman in the office though).

2) Woman with equal qualifications (or better in some instances, my daughter at this point has quite a bit of experience, but there have been times that she was offered less money than another male engineer who had less qualifications than she did for the same job) get equal pay.  I don't know how this would be enforced, but I think it's terrible how a very educated lady (such as my daughter) could get less wages than someone less qualified and in some instances less educated.

I am definitely NOT a feminist (for starters, I'm not even a woman), but being a father with remarkably talented and smart girls...I find that there are things that I think are not equal in the job market in regards to women who are working.  I think that there are those that go off to the FAR ends of the spectrum (both on the far right and the far left) but I think that too often people get stuck looking at those ends rather than a nice medium in between them.  In that light, sometimes you go farther in one direction in the hopes that going so far will drag the middle more towards your direction...but not the entire way.

In that light, the fight for women to receive equal pay is something that I can completely sympathize with and even hope for, especially when it involves individuals such as my daughter who I would want to be respected for her talents and abilities and be paid as such in equality with any other individual out there.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

@JohnsonJones men can be Feminists too.  You sound like a great "middle of the road Feminist", but if you want to be such without the title that's cool too.   

[lostinwater]

2 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

This is an interesting thing that you bring it up about engineers.  What follows is entirely off topic from the original post. 

I have seven kids, some of whom are daughters.  One of my daughters expressed a desire to be an engineer when she was growing up.  When asked about marriage she would point out that her goal in life was to become an engineer not a housewife.

Now, she DID get married young (or younger than what many are getting married today by a LOT) and now has four kids, but she went on and got a degree.  What was noted was that in some instances when she applied for a job, those positions had the salary notated publically on what certain officials were earning.  Almost every time she was offered a job in engineering and technical expertise it tended to be anywhere from $,2000 to $20,000 LESS than what the man who was working in the field prior to her was hired for.  In some instances where she and a male co-worker were hired at the same time, she would be hired at less of a salary.

In that light, it's not the idea that 50%of all engineers be women...BUT perhaps the following of which I've observed from my daughter being in a technical field SHOULD be corrected.

1) Men cannot scare women away from technical (including engineering) fields.  By this I mean there seems to be an allowable amount of sexual comment and commentary in offices.  When I've been in some offices when she isn't, even if they know I'm her father, at times there are many inappropriate comments that are crude and not appreciative of a woman's positive qualities.  I can see very much how women may feel sexual harassment or otherwise at such offices or classes and decide this is NOT a field they want to be in.  (On the otherhand, the office she works in currently, is outstanding.  I've never heard anything to that effect, and she hasn't had any complaints I've heard of.  She IS the only woman in the office though).

2) Woman with equal qualifications (or better in some instances, my daughter at this point has quite a bit of experience, but there have been times that she was offered less money than another male engineer who had less qualifications than she did for the same job) get equal pay.  I don't know how this would be enforced, but I think it's terrible how a very educated lady (such as my daughter) could get less wages than someone less qualified and in some instances less educated.

I am definitely NOT a feminist (for starters, I'm not even a woman), but being a father with remarkably talented and smart girls...I find that there are things that I think are not equal in the job market in regards to women who are working.  I think that there are those that go off to the FAR ends of the spectrum (both on the far right and the far left) but I think that too often people get stuck looking at those ends rather than a nice medium in between them.  In that light, sometimes you go farther in one direction in the hopes that going so far will drag the middle more towards your direction...but not the entire way.

In that light, the fight for women to receive equal pay is something that I can completely sympathize with and even hope for, especially when it involves individuals such as my daughter who I would want to be respected for her talents and abilities and be paid as such in equality with any other individual out there.

Completely agree @JohnsonJones

My perspective is the same as yours.  

It was probably not the best example for me to even use that one.  i meant more that the idea that governments force there to be a perfect 50/50 gender split in all professions.  

Honestly, i think very good and intelligent people like your daughter - her experiences - highlight a big swathe of the legitimate biases that the feminist movement is trying to address.  

[NeedleinA]

3 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

You sound like a great "middle of the road Feminist", but if you want to be such without the title that's cool too.   

LP has hit it on the head for me. A chunk of my hold up is the "title", rather the need to self-identify with a title or group.
If I enjoy camping, hikes in the woods, forest animals, don't want to see the worlds rain forest destroyed, do I have to identify with, label myself or take pride in calling myself a "tree hugger"?
Can I just be a human who enjoys those things and agrees with those things without the label of "tree hugger"?

If so, why the need to identify and classify oneself with the badge of feminist? This I don't understand. Why can't I just be a man or woman who holds some overlapping interests instead?
Need to join woman's group to uplift others, share talents, teach one another... great = Relief Society
Need to join a man's group to uplift others, share talents, teach one another...great = Priesthood

Do I care about others, sure. Do I wish them the best, sure. Do I offer service to others less fortunate, sure. Typically I choose to do this via the system the Lord has put into play.
I often view these groups as people who both intentionally and unintentionally flame the fire for each other to harbor unnecessary or disproportionate resentment, anger and frustration.
 

Edited April 6, 2018 by NeedleinA

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

7 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

If so, why the need to identify and classify oneself with the badge of feminist? This I don't understand. Why can't I just be a man or woman who holds some overlapping interests instead?
Need to join woman's group to uplift others, share talents, teach one another... great = Relief Society
Need to join a man's group to uplift others, share talents, teach one another...great = Priesthood

NeedleinA, this sounds like something my husband might say....I mention so that you know that even though I'm about to share a divergent idea, there's no hard feelings.   As I said, if others agree with these ideas, but don't feel the need to label it, that's cool.  But here you seem to be asking why others of us might choose the label.  For me it's about advocacy and activism. (Yes, I'll be changing my avatar to a snowflake emblazened with SJW soon, LOL!)    A big part of Feminism , for me, is shining the light on abuse, and rape.  How far do you think I will get if I start sharing articles about that on my Relief Society page?  A couple of us tried to talk about the MTC case on our unofficial Stake page and we were completely shut down.  Not only was the thread closed, but it was deleted.  We were told that we should have made better use of our time by preparing our minds for Conference.  I was told that that the Stake page was NOT the place for that conversation, and that I should discuss it on my on FB wall instead.  Well, I tried, and you know what happened?  It turned into a church bashing discussion, which was NOT what I was looking for.  I wanted to talk to other members about this and the issues that arise from it.  

In Relief Society, and Priesthood settings it's apparently okay to talk about the Law of Chasity or about pornography, but we cannot talk about sexual violence.  Studies show that pornography is often linked to sexual violence, so if pornography use keeps growing we're going to have to have that conversation, but for now....my ward (and I suspect most others) would rather not talk about that elephant.  

One might say, advocacy and activism is not the mission of the church.  That's cool.  But that answers your question about why I claim the lable of Mormon Feminism....because I need Relief Society AND Femisnism to fill different but related roles in my life.