Just_A_Guy

Joseph Bishop Redux: Lawsuit Filed

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Tribune coverage, naming the plaintiff, at 

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/04/05/woman-sues-the-lds-church-for-what-she-says-was-abuse-by-missionary-training-center-president/

Also, according to MyLife, plaintiff McKenna Denson was formerly known as . . . June Marie Hughes.  

(https://www.mylife.com/mckenna-denson/mckennadenson)

@clwnuke, well done.

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5 minutes ago, Vort said:

That's some messed-up stuff right there.

What, you have a problem with the idea of a court ordering a church not to speak out against the legislative revocation of priest-penitent privilege?

What is wrong with you, man?

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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3 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

What is wrong with you, man?

I am a special snowflake, unique in my own right. I am special, I'm the only one, I'm the only one like me. There's no one like me <power chord>

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4 hours ago, Grunt said:

I love the typing/spacing error in 5th paragraph of this article

"In the recorded interview, after gushing about Bishop's service to the church, the woman beginstalking about events more than three decades ago, when she was training at the center in Utah for her work as a missionary." 

Stalking by talking seems to be exactly what happened here.

Edited by askandanswer

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The good news is that the plaintiff will have her day in legal court where procedures are in place to protect the rights of all parties involved, separate good and relevant evidence from bad, and best serve justice--all of which is disturbingly lacking in the ongoing trial taking place in the court of public opinion..

And, depending upon the results of the legal trial, appropriate action will be taken by those with the power and authority and desire to do what is right, as opposed to all the impotent posturing, empty virtue signaling, and counterproductive disputation between relative no-bodies throughout social media.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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18 minutes ago, Backroads said:

I am glad it's going to court, may justice and truth prevail there for whatever be the outcome.

Not nearly as exciting as the court of public opinion, social media may decry.

This will never make it to the courtroom. The church will settle. She will get paid.

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1 minute ago, Backroads said:

Eh, you're probably right.

I read the complaint, if there is even one shred of truth to it. (and I don't know that there is) If anyone knew, ever, that he "Bishop" had a problem and gave him a pass (on prior grievous sin) that individual has some explaining to do. While the church is not responsible for the actions of one individual at his level Bishop/Mission president/MTC President etc. the standard should be high and accountability higher than a normal person.  The church will investigate and then they will write a big check accompanied by a NDA. I think this is worth about 3 million. 

How does the church fund these type of things?

 

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1 hour ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

How does the church fund these type of things?

Taking a guess, through some kind of umbrella insurance policy. Our business has a policy like this.

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12 hours ago, wenglund said:

The good news is that the plaintiff will have her day in legal court where procedures are in place to protect the rights of all parties involved, separate good and relevant evidence from bad, and best serve justice--all of which is disturbingly lacking in the ongoing trial taking place in the court of public opinion..

And, depending upon the results of the legal trial, appropriate action will be taken by those with the power and authority and desire to do what is right, as opposed to all the impotent posturing, empty virtue signaling, and counterproductive disputation between relative no-bodies throughout social media.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

The bad news is that the adjudication is at least 34 years removed from the alleged event in question, and 13 years beyond the statute of limitations for a criminal trial, and the defendant and several of the witnesses are in their mid  to late 80 where distant and even short term memories have faded, and much of the case will boil down to she-said-he-said.  

So, not  the most solid ground upon which to balance the scales of justice.

Hopefully, though, most people wont have high expectation of having the matter resolved to everyone's, or even most people's satisfaction. My guess is that it will make little difference to the gossip mill, if not provide more grist. 

Nevertheless, while the counterproductive hand-wringing and self-righteous gesticulating and pontificates may continue to billow  some of us can take comfort in the fact that the gospel will quietly and blessedly move forward, and the Rock of Salvation will continue to roll on bettering the lives of those who roll with it.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-  

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I hope it goes to trial, I hope the accuser is thoroughly cross-examined as to her past dishonesties, and I hope the media covers it in-depth rather than glossing over it as they have in other litigation involving women making claims against the Church.

Barring that, I hope one of the multitudinous news media outlets that have the dossier and have been concealing it from the public, finally leaks it.

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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I would just like to make sure I'm on record here.

- A few years back, I had information regarding a Mormon in another state sexually abusing a child.  I knew the child.

- I sent my information to that person's bishop and stake president, and asked them to tell me the results.

- The church held a disciplinary counsel and the person was excommunicated.  The stake president called me back to tell me that result.  He asked me to let him know if he could do anything else to help the child heal.

- I am a real person.  This is not a rumor, or a thirdhand account of something.  I still have all the court documents and emails and transcripts and stuff.  

 

I'm only guessing here, but when horrible stuff like this happens, I'm guessing my experience is more of the norm than everything we're reading about with the Joseph Bishop incident.

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6 hours ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

This will never make it to the courtroom. The church will settle. She will get paid.

I'm not sure this will happen in this instance if they want her to sign an NDA.  It may have to be a PRETTY LARGE settlement.  There appears to be paperwork that actually goes back several decades...but much of the PR has focused ONLY on the stuff from 2010 onwards.  She seems (at least currently) pretty dead set on getting it to the open finally and forcing recognition of victims and others that shared similar situations as she did.  She also has several organizations (as far as I can tell, almost all hostile to the LDS church) egging her on and encouraging her at this point. 

Which means I'm not sure what will happen.  It could end in a settlement with an NDA.  It could end in a settlement with other requirements, or it could go full on into the full case to the end.  OR it could be tossed out.  I don't know.

29 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

I would just like to make sure I'm on record here.

- A few years back, I had information regarding a Mormon in another state sexually abusing a child.  I knew the child.

- I sent my information to that person's bishop and stake president, and asked them to tell me the results.

- The church held a disciplinary counsel and the person was excommunicated.  The stake president called me back to tell me that result.  He asked me to let him know if he could do anything else to help the child heal.

- I am a real person.  This is not a rumor, or a thirdhand account of something.  I still have all the court documents and emails and transcripts and stuff.  

 

I'm only guessing here, but when horrible stuff like this happens, I'm guessing my experience is more of the norm than everything we're reading about with the Joseph Bishop incident.

The bigger question isn't whether the individual was dealt with in regards to church discipline, but whether that individual went to jail or was dealt with in regards to the Judicial system.  I think that's why this case has disturbed some in Utah (where I believe it is actually more of a local news item than something that is national news...at least at this point).  Even if the individual was subject to church discipline in any fashion...there should be a duty for those individuals who are breaking the law in regards to the abuse of children or sexual harassment (or worse) to face the legal justice of those actions in regards to their respective governments beyond that within the LDS church.

Edited by JohnsonJones

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On 4/5/2018 at 12:22 AM, lostinwater said:

That's why I could never be a judge.  

That travesty of "communication" would look like a murder scene with all the red pen, and it would be sent back with a recommendation that the "educated" lawyer hire a 4th grade English teacher to check all of his work.  

I'm pretty sure the legal profession clings stubbornly to that hideous structure in hopes that it will make their inability to write properly less obvious.

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8 hours ago, NightSG said:

That's why I could never be a judge.  

That travesty of "communication" would look like a murder scene with all the red pen, and it would be sent back with a recommendation that the "educated" lawyer hire a 4th grade English teacher to check all of his work.  

I'm pretty sure the legal profession clings stubbornly to that hideous structure in hopes that it will make their inability to write properly less obvious.

I'm guessing a significant percentage of it was written by Denson, then the lawyer legalified the format - at least, that's how it reads to me.

(Lest anyone toss @Just_A_Guy into NightSG's evaluation, I have to say, he's one of the best writers I've read - of non-fiction, obviously - if he's written fiction, I know nothing about it.)

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52 minutes ago, zil said:

Lest anyone toss @Just_A_Guy into NightSG's evaluation, I have to say, he's one of the best writers I've read 

if you go for the forensic, specifically worded technical language that you'd have to be an engineer to decode.   Oh, wait.

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On 4/4/2018 at 8:57 PM, Just_A_Guy said:

Tribune coverage, naming the plaintiff, at 

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/04/05/woman-sues-the-lds-church-for-what-she-says-was-abuse-by-missionary-training-center-president/

Also, according to MyLife, plaintiff McKenna Denson was formerly known as . . . June Marie Hughes.  

(https://www.mylife.com/mckenna-denson/mckennadenson)

@clwnuke, well done.

Based on the little I know, the Church should have never let it come to a lawsuit.   The church needs to get the checkbook and start writing checks, if necessary, get a NDA, and move on.

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12 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

Based on the little I know, the Church should have never let it come to a lawsuit.   The church needs to get the checkbook and start writing checks, if necessary, get a NDA, and move on.

I dunno.  Denson’s legal theory seems to boil down to:

1). Before her encounter with Bishop:  that because the Church knew at some level that Bishop was sexually profligate, it should have known he was a potential rapist; and

2). After her encounter with Bishop:  that Denson had a legal right a) to compel the Church to take disciplinary action against Bishop’s status as a member; b) to be informed as to the results of that disciplinary action; and c) to have the Church make a report to law enforcement that Denson herself couldn’t be bothered to make.

These are not exactly rock-solid legal theories.  The fight may be ugly from a PR standpoint, but to me it looks like one that is eminently winnable for the Church from a legal standpoint.

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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7 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I dunno.  Denson’s legal theory seems to boil down to:

1). Before her encounter with Bishop:  that because the Church knew at some level that Bishop was sexually profligate, it should have known he was a potential rapist; and

2). After her encounter with Bishop:  that Denson had a legal right a) to compel the Church to take disciplinary action against Bishop’s status as a member; b) to be informed as to the results of that disciplinary action; and c) to have the Church make a report to law enforcement that Denson herself couldn’t be bothered to make.

These are not exactly rock-solid legal theories.  The fight may be ugly from a PR standpoint, but to me it looks like one that is eminently winnable for the Church from a legal standpoint.

Winnable yes but you can be right and still end up writing a check. The Church does not want or need this kind of negative attention.  They will settle as they have in the past, Bishop will be excommunicated and he can be the poster boy for how serious they take these allegations. 

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