Repentance after death

[The Folk Prophet]

36 minutes ago, wenglund said:

{Insightful comment deleted in recognition of futility]

Ah...man. I didn't get to read it. All I get is the garbage from Rob?

This sucks.

[Rob Osborn]

2 hours ago, wenglund said:

{Insightful comment deleted in recognition of futility]

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Then why did you keep bringing it up? 

(BTW, its rather very rude to post what you just did, just sayin...)

[Rob Osborn]

2 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Ah...man. I didn't get to read it. All I get is the garbage from Rob?

This sucks.

That same "garbage" is what Christ teaches. You really think Christ's teachings are garbage? Wow!

[The Folk Prophet]

2 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

That same "garbage" is what Christ teaches. You really think Christ's teachings are garbage? Wow!

Christ taught that the apostles' teachings were wrong? Christ taught we should ignore their teachings if we feel our intellectual understanding of ancient scripture is superior? Christ taught we should go out and publicly preach to others how the apostles are wrong? Christ taught that we should actively attempt to lead others into disregarding the teachings of the living apostles and prophets?

[The Folk Prophet]

Therefore, let us beware of false prophets and false teachers, both men and women, who are self-appointed declarers of the doctrines of the Church and who seek to spread their false gospel and attract followers by sponsoring symposia, books, and journals whose contents challenge fundamental doctrines of the Church. Beware of those who speak and publish in opposition to God’s true prophets and who actively proselyte others with reckless disregard for the eternal well-being of those whom they seduce.

-M. Russell Ballard

[The Folk Prophet]

Of such President Joseph F. Smith warned when he spoke of the “proud and self-vaunting ones, who read by the lamps of their own conceit; who interpret by rules of their own contriving; who have become a law unto themselves, and so pose as the sole judges of their own doings” (Gospel Doctrine, 381).

-M. Russell Ballard

Edited April 12, 2018 by The Folk Prophet

[Rob Osborn]

6 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Christ taught that the apostles' teachings were wrong? Christ taught we should ignore their teachings if we feel our intellectual understanding of ancient scripture is superior? Christ taught we should go out and publicly preach to others how the apostles are wrong? Christ taught that we should actively attempt to lead others into disregarding the teachings of the living apostles and prophets?

Whoa there...

Christ taught that we must repent and be baptized in order to be saved from hell. If anyone, and it doesnt matter who,  teaches contrary to that then they are wrong. 

[The Folk Prophet]

Regardless of which particular false doctrines they teach, false prophets and false teachers are an inevitable part of the last days. “False prophets,” according to the Prophet Joseph Smith, “always arise to oppose the true prophets” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, sel. Joseph Fielding Smith [1976], 365).

-M. Russell Ballard

Edited April 12, 2018 by The Folk Prophet

[The Folk Prophet]

One is either for the kingdom of God and stands in defense of God’s prophets and apostles, or one stands opposed. 

-M. Russell Ballard

Edited April 12, 2018 by The Folk Prophet

[Rob Osborn]

8 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

One is either for the kingdom of God and stands in defense of God’s prophets and apostles, or one stands opposed. 

Look, if you want to start a thread to roast me then do so but stop falsly accusing me and hijacking the thread. Its getting very annoying!

[The Folk Prophet]

The Lord established one strait and narrow way, and understandingly observed that “few there be that find it.”

Not only did he provide that salvation should come through his regularly constituted church, but he set up safeguards to protect its members from being tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine and to preserve them from the sleight of men who, with cunning craftiness, lie in wait to deceive. (See Eph. 4:14.)

Those safeguards, according to Paul’s epistle to the Ephesians, rested primarily in the persons of the apostles and prophets whom God placed at the head of the Church for that specific purpose.

They were the inspired leaders in the Church. They were the mouthpieces of the Lord, and their inspired messages to the people were the will of the Lord, the mind of the Lord, the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation. (See D&C 68:4.)

With such heavenly guidance, none need go astray.

But there were men in the Lord’s own day who taught false doctrines and led the people into mistaken paths. These the Savior severely criticized, accusing them of apostasy from the very law of Moses which they pretended to preach.

-Mark E. Petersen

[Rob Osborn]

Heck, I will do it for you

[The Folk Prophet]

Did not Amos of old say that the Lord will do nothing except through his servants the prophets? (See Amos 3:7.) And did God ever send prophets to earth without divine authority, without the right to speak and act in his name?

Were not the prophets and Apostles placed in the early Christian church by the Savior himself? And were they not called and ordained “for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ”? (Eph. 4:12.)

And were they not the foundation of the true church, as Paul said, the Savior being the chief cornerstone? (See Eph. 2:20.)

And were they not to remain in the Church “till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ”? (Eph. 4:13.)

And were they not to remain also that we “be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine”? (Eph. 4:14.)

The need for such direction is as great today as it was in the time of Peter and Paul when indeed every wind of doctrine did assail the Saints, and when false prophets did arise, teaching with “cunning craftiness, whereby they” did indeed “lie in wait to deceive.” (Eph. 4:14.)

The Saints today need instruction from God through his prophets just as did the members of the ancient church. We of this dispensation also must depend upon inspired direction in the work of the ministry and upon constant divine guidance on our way to perfection.

-Mark E Petersen

[The Folk Prophet]

 

On 4/9/2018 at 6:29 PM, Rob Osborn said:

I love Elder Oaks but he is wrong on several points.

 

20 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

One is either for the kingdom of God and stands in defense of God’s prophets and apostles, or one stands opposed. 

11 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Look, if you want to start a thread to roast me then do so but stop falsly accusing me and hijacking the thread. Its getting very annoying!

 

Hmm....

[Rob Osborn]

15 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

 

 

Hmm....

Go look, I started a thread just for those of you who think I'm the devils spawn. Go there and post your drivel.

[CV75]

On 4/9/2018 at 10:32 AM, Rob Osborn said:

No thread-jack. There is a lot of talk that the wicked wont really have a desire to repent after death. For a very few minority this is correct but it is very few indeed. I have seen and experienced the state of the condemned to hell and I can testify it is the most horrible and painful feeling imaginable. The inescapable dread feeling is so terrifying its no wonder they are said to be in torment. That is a strong driving power for change. Thus, most will repent in the spirit prison (hell) and gain salvation.

It is a thread-jack. My post was about agency, how it can be reduced through wickedness, and how that might affect one's desire to repent. The death experience might certainly give one pause and invite a change of heart, but it depends on how far down the wrong path he chose to wander. You can't have it both ways, acknowledging degrees of post-mortal desire without acknowledging degrees of glory in the immortal estate and those degrees of glory. Using my post as an excuse to beat a dead hobby horse is a thread-jack.

[Rob Osborn]

1 hour ago, CV75 said:

It is a thread-jack. My post was about agency, how it can be reduced through wickedness, and how that might affect one's desire to repent. The death experience might certainly give one pause and invite a change of heart, but it depends on how far down the wrong path he chose to wander. You can't have it both ways, acknowledging degrees of post-mortal desire without acknowledging degrees of glory in the immortal estate and those degrees of glory. Using my post as an excuse to beat a dead hobby horse is a thread-jack.

Perhaps you should go back and look for the real culprits that hijacked it or tried to. I was speaking about repentance after death and several folks came in and laid into me. Are you attempting now to hijack this thread again?

[The Folk Prophet]

[CV75]

28 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Perhaps you should go back and look for the real culprits that hijacked it or tried to. I was speaking about repentance after death and several folks came in and laid into me. Are you attempting now to hijack this thread again?

LOL -- good luck with all that!

[Rob Osborn]

3 hours ago, RemnantofJoseph said:

There is no repentance after death.   The Book of Mormon is 100% clear on this.   But we must ask ourselves, what is repentance?  In the scriptures, "repentance" is merely "turning away from what you're doing and turning to God."    It's believing on the name of Christ and keeping His commandments.  It's not a checklist of sins.   

Let us consult the "most correct book on earth":

1 Nephi 10:21

 

Therefore, if ye have sought to do wickedly in the days of your probation, then ye are found unclean before the judgment-seat of God; and no unclean thing can dwell with God; wherefore, ye must be cast off forever.

 

1 Nephi 15:32-33

 

And it came to pass that I said unto them that it was a representation of things both temporal and spiritual; for the day should come that they must be judged of their works, yea, even the works which were done by the temporal body in their days of probation. Wherefore, if they should die in their wickedness they must be cast off also, as to the things which are spiritual, which are pertaining to righteousness; wherefore, they must be brought to stand before God, to be judged of their works; and if their works have been filthiness they must needs be filthy; and if they be filthy it must needs be that they cannot dwell in the kingdom of God; if so, the kingdom of God must be filthy also.

 

2 Nephi 2:21

 

And the days of the children of men were prolonged, according to the will of God, that they might repent while in the flesh; wherefore, their state became a state of probation, and their time was lengthened, according to the commandments which the Lord God gave unto the children of men. For he gave commandment that all men must repent; for he showed unto all men that they were lost, because of the transgression of their parents.

 

2 Nephi 9:25 

 

Wherefore, he has given a law; and where there is no law given there is no punishment; and where there is no punishment there is no condemnation; and where there is no condemnation the mercies of the Holy One of Israel have claim upon them, because of the atonement; for they are delivered by the power of him.

 

2 Nephi 9:38

 

And in fine, woe unto all they that die in their sins, for they shall return to God and behold his face and remain in their sins.

 

Mosiah 2:38-39

 

Therefore, if that man repenteth not and remaineth an enemy to God, the demands of divine justice doth awaken his immortal soul to a lively sense of his own guilt, which doth cause him to shrink from the presence of the Lord and doth fill his breast with guilt and pain and anguish, which is like an unquenchable fire who flames ascendeth up forever and ever.  And now I saw unto you that mercy hath no claim on that man; therefore his final doom is to endure a never-ending torment.

 

Mosiah 3:23-25

 

And now I have spoken the words which the Lord God hath commanded me.  And thus saith the Lord:  "They shall stand as a bright testimony against this people at the judgment day; wherefore they shall be judged every man according to his works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.  And if the be evil, they are consigned to an awful view of their own guilt and abominations, which doth cause them to shrink from the presence of the Lord into a state of endless torment from when they can no more return; therefore, they have drunk damnation to their own souls.  Therefore, they have drunk out of the cup of the wrath of God, which justice could no more deny unto them than it could deny that Adam should fall because of his partaking of the forbidden fruit; therefore, mercy could have claim on them no more forever.  And their torment is a lake of fire and brimstone whose flames are unquenchable and who some ascendeth up forever and ever."  <End revelation direct from God>.  Thus hath the Lord commanded.  Amen.

 

Alma 48:23

 

Now, they were sorry to take up arms against the Lamanites, because they did not delight in the shedding of blood; yea, and this was not all—they were sorry to be the means of sending so many of their brethren out of this world into an eternal world, unprepared to meet their God.

 

Helaman 13:38

 

But behold, your days of probation are past; ye have procrastinated the day of your salvation (this life) until it is everlastingly too late, and your destruction is made sure; yea, for ye have sought all the days of your lives for that which ye could not obtain; and ye have sought for happiness in doing iniquity, which thing is contrary to the nature of that righteousness which is in our great and Eternal Head.

 

Moroni 8:22-24

 

"... wherefore, he that is not condemned, or he that is under no condemnation, cannot repent; and unto such baptism availeth nothing—But it is mockery before God, denying the mercies of Christ, and the power of his Holy Spirit, and putting trust in dead works. Behold, my son, this thing ought not to be; for repentance is unto them that are under condemnation and under the curse of a broken law.

 

We learn here from Mormon that Baptism for the Dead is a false doctrine.

 

Those who didn't have the law are not under condemnation.   Their salvation is secured the merits of Jesus Christ.  To those people, baptism avails nothing.  These are dead works.  To suggest those who died without a knowledge of Christ need baptism is deny Jesus Christ and His supernal sacrifice on our behalf.   To suggest those who rejected Christ in this life can someone how accept in the next is to deny His holy word.  There is no secondary salvation in the spirit world, because as Amulek taught, the same spirit that possess us now will possess us in the next life.

 

Please consider the seriousness of this Mormon's words.  The LDS church teaches doctrine that denies the merits and mercies of Jesus Christ. 

 

However, baptism IS for those who have the law and who have sinned, but have heard His voice and desire to follow Him.   As Alma said at the Waters of Mormon, If you desire to serve God and your fellow man, what do you have against being baptized?

 

Until we repent of our idolatry of "living prophets" and teaching false doctrines and put the Holy Book of Mormon back in its position of primacy, we remain under the same condemnation we've been under since 1832.

 

We would be wise to adhere to the Lord's words in 3 Nephi:

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and I bear record of it from the Father; and whoso believeth in me believeth in the Father also; and unto him will the Father bear record of me, for he will visit him with fire and with the Holy Ghost. And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the Holy Ghost will bear record unto him of the Father and me; for the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one. And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and become as a little child, and be baptized in my name, or ye can in nowise receive these things. And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and be baptized in my name, and become as a little child, or ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God. Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and whoso buildeth upon this buildeth upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them. And whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil, and is not built upon my rock; but he buildeth upon a sandy foundation, and the gates of hell stand open to receive such when the floods come and the winds beat upon them.

 

Believe in Jesus, repent, become as a little child, baptism of fire and water.   Those will inherit the Kingdom of God, for God himself declared it.

It really is that simple.

 

 

 

 

If there is no repentance after death everyone of us is eternally screwed. Which one of us is perfect having no sin or desire to sin? Are you LDS?

[The Folk Prophet]

2 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

If there is no repentance after death everyone of us is eternally screwed. Which one of us is perfect having no sin or desire to sin? Are you LDS?

You don't believe in repentance in this life?

Here's some insight by Elder Bednar:

Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost is an ordinance administered in the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood. In the process of coming unto the Savior and spiritual rebirth, receiving the sanctifying power of the Holy Ghost in our lives creates the possibility of an ongoing cleansing of our soul from sin. This joyous blessing is vital because “no unclean thing can dwell with God.”

As members of the Lord’s restored Church, we are blessed both by our initial cleansing from sin associated with baptism and by the potential for an ongoing cleansing from sin made possible through the companionship and power of the Holy Ghost—even the third member of the Godhead.

[The Folk Prophet]

2 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

If there is no repentance after death everyone of us is eternally screwed. Which one of us is perfect having no sin or desire to sin? Are you LDS?

And by the way...aren't you the stickler for taking the Book of Mormon at its word?

[Rob Osborn]

1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:

And by the way...aren't you the stickler for taking the Book of Mormon at its word?

Yes I am. One must consider though that the najority of the doctrine in the Book of Mormon was written before Christ bridged the gap in the spirit world after his death. Before that there wasnt a way for man to be redeemed from hell according to their scripture. You should know by now the line upon line teachings.

[Rob Osborn]

1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:

You don't believe in repentance in this life?

Here's some insight by Elder Bednar:

Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost is an ordinance administered in the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood. In the process of coming unto the Savior and spiritual rebirth, receiving the sanctifying power of the Holy Ghost in our lives creates the possibility of an ongoing cleansing of our soul from sin. This joyous blessing is vital because “no unclean thing can dwell with God.”

As members of the Lord’s restored Church, we are blessed both by our initial cleansing from sin associated with baptism and by the potential for an ongoing cleansing from sin made possible through the companionship and power of the Holy Ghost—even the third member of the Godhead.

I believe repentance goes beyond the grave.

[The Folk Prophet]

9 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

Yes I am. One must consider though that the najority of the doctrine in the Book of Mormon was written before Christ bridged the gap in the spirit world after his death. Before that there wasnt a way for man to be redeemed from hell according to their scripture. You should know by now the line upon line teachings.

Right....so line upon line with repentance after death...but what was said about damnation and salvation was final and no further understanding is allowed.

Double standard much?

A Book of Mormon! A Book of Mormon! We have got a Book of Mormon!