My Bishop took my temple recommend away unfairly. How can I contest his decision?

[JayKi]

Just now, estradling75 said:

If necessary you can respond once with..  "I do not want to come between a husband and wife any more.  So I am going to focus on having a great life with out you... and I suggests you focus on having a great life with your husband."

 

This is mean to say. I just ask her to wait until my fiancee comes to live with me in July and then we all be friend together. 

[JayKi]

Delete

Edited April 25, 2018 by JayKi
post 2

[JayKi]

10 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

There will be things that will pull you from your marital covenant - like if your wife tells you she doesn't want you to hang out with your friend anymore.  So, if you don't respect marital covenants like you should, you'd rather put a strain on your wife rather then let go of your friend.

 

Then I won't be friend with her, but my wife will be happy to have my friend as a friend too. 

I won't put strain on my wife but I can't let her tell me what is to do, same way I can't tell her what she is to do. 

[estradling75]

3 minutes ago, JayKi said:

This is mean to say. I just ask her to wait until my fiancee comes to live with me in July and then we all be friend together. 

And what if your wife... says I do not want you to see that woman?

I mean you never answered how you would feel if you were the one in the husband's shoes and it was your wife that was ignoring your to be "friends" with another man

[zil]

16 hours ago, JayKi said:

Exactly it is their problem not mine so why I have to resolve it by telling my friend no to hang out when she ask me. If she want to is her choice. And why me punish for their problem? 

You're not going to resolve it.  You out of the picture resolves nothing.  But it allows them to resolve the problem.

15 hours ago, JayKi said:

 Someone else makes covenant is not for me to keep theirs but is for me to keep mine own. 

There's a difference between keeping a covenant (something you do when - and after - you make it), and respecting a covenant - something you do in relation to any covenant, even those not your own.

Think of the Anti-Nephi-Lehies (people of Ammon).  What if the Nephites, when the next war broke out, said "We have no respect for your covenant. Take up arms and help us defend our lands."  It could (probably would) have led to the destruction of the souls of those who had made a covenant - and for what?  So some people could extend their mortality?  Even the Nephites didn't think it was worth that risk.  They encouraged the people of Ammon to keep their covenant, no matter the mortal cost.  That is respecting another's covenant.  If extension of someone's mortality isn't worth disrespecting a covenant, how can mere mortal friendship be worth it?

Edited April 26, 2018 by zil

[JayKi]

1 hour ago, estradling75 said:

And what if your wife... says I do not want you to see that woman?

 

My fiancee is very kind woman she will be happy to be friend with my friend we all have same culture and it will be fun for us. If she don't want me to see her on my own then I won't see my friend without my wife. 

 

1 hour ago, estradling75 said:

I mean you never answered how you would feel if you were the one in the husband's shoes and it was your wife that was ignoring your to be "friends" with another man

I would talk to my wife to see is it make her happy to be friend with him. I will trust my wife so it won't be problem as long as she happy I will be happy. 

[estradling75]

11 minutes ago, JayKi said:

My fiancee is very kind woman she will be happy to be friend with my friend we all have same culture and it will be fun for us. If she don't want me to see her on my own then I won't see my friend without my wife. 

 

I would talk to my wife to see is it make her happy to be friend with him. I will trust my wife so it won't be problem as long as she happy I will be happy. 

Which is an evasion of the question.  So lets be very blunt

If there was man that you thought your wife was in danger of having an affair with.  And after talking with her about your concerns she ignored you and continued to develop a relationship with him.  How would that make you feel? How would you act to protect your marriage and covenants from your wife's weakness?

 

[Suzie]

On 4/24/2018 at 8:40 AM, JayKi said:

I think it was a cultural misunderstanding, where I am from in Costa Rica what I sent is just a compliment you would say to any female even your mother or grandmother. In England I think it has a different meaning.  

 

Do you mind typing the word?

[Suzie]

On 4/24/2018 at 12:07 PM, JayKi said:

I wanted to cheer her up so I sent her, "It will be okay Princessa, be happy you have a beautiful smile". I only see it can be flirtatious because I may send it to my girlfriend but also to my mother or grandmother or sister.  

That's flirty in ANY language brother.

[Suzie]

On 4/24/2018 at 12:19 PM, MormonGator said:

I'm in your corner on this one bro,100%. One of my closest friends in the world is a :: gasp :: single woman. I've known her for over a decade and we :: oh no :: text easily once a every few days. We also chat on FB messenger and we've grabbed lunch at cafes too. Ladygator knows this and doesn't care at all.

Just a question Gator, would you call this friend "Princess" ? And how Mrs.LadyGator would feel if you do?

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, Suzie said:

Just a question Gator, would you call this friend "Princess" ? And how Mrs.LadyGator would feel if you do?

No, of course not. I call her Jen.

Yes, LG would be highly insulted if I called her "princess". So, I don't. 

Like I mentioned deeper in the thread, the situation has issues and I'm not in his corner. 

That said, I have nothing wrong whatsoever with cross gender friendships, as long as all parties are okay with it. It's all about boundaries.  Jen is also friends with LG on Facebook, LG is open to all the conversations we have, etc, etc. So my situation is totally different than the OPs.  

[estradling75]

7 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

 So my situation is totally different than the OPs.  

Indeed... I would expect that if any of those female friends (or their spouses) were to inform you that your relationship was causing issues you would do the following.

You'd apologize for causing issues even though you mean no harm.

You'd back off the relationship as quickly as possible even though you did nothing wrong.

You'd morn the loss of a friendship, because you respect for the covenant of marriage they have is more important then your friendship.

Because that is the kind of Honorable guy that I expect that you are... That is the kind of guy we hope the OP will become

[JayKi]

42 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

If there was man that you thought your wife was in danger of having an affair with.  And after talking with her about your concerns she ignored you and continued to develop a relationship with him.  How would that make you feel? How would you act to protect your marriage and covenants from your wife's weakness?

 

I am not really paranoid person but if my wife was in that position I would look at myself to see if I did something to make her seek attention or friendship away from me. I would ask her why is I don't fulfil all her need and do the thing she say she need. I never want to make my wife feel prisoner in our marriage by restricting what she do but I would try to convince her the right thing for us. 

[JayKi]

30 minutes ago, Suzie said:

That's flirty in ANY language brother.

I didn't know it was because I say it a lot to lot of women at home in affectionate way but not flirtatious.  

[JayKi]

31 minutes ago, Suzie said:

On 24/04/2018 at 5:19 PM, MormonGator said:

I'm in your corner on this one bro,100%. One of my closest friends in the world is a :: gasp :: single woman. I've known her for over a decade and we :: oh no :: text easily once a every few days. We also chat on FB messenger and we've grabbed lunch at cafes too. Ladygator knows this and doesn't care at all.

 

I wish I had the same situation so I can be friend with my friend. 

[Guest MormonGator]

6 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

Indeed... I would expect that if any of those female friends (or their spouses) were to inform you that your relationship was causing issues you would do the following.

Neither one of us would put our spouses or significant others in the situation where they would feel uncomfortable or awkward in the first place. 

6 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

You'd apologize for causing issues even though you mean no harm.

Never been a need for apologizing in ten years, so I doubt one will come up. Again, it's about boundaries and open communication.

6 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

You'd back off the relationship as quickly as possible even though you did nothing wrong.

I don't have many close friends so I value the ones I have more than gold, and I hope/pray we can talk our way though anything. Thankfully, LG understands this, but again, I'm smart enough to be in this situation in the first place.

8 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

You'd morn the loss of a friendship, because you respect for the covenant of marriage they have is more important then your friendship.

Maybe, but again I can't see it happening. I would mourn the loss of the friendship, no doubt. I place a very high value on that. 

9 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

.Because that is the kind of Honorable guy that I expect that you are..

Wrong. I'm not honorable, moral, ethical or anything of the sort. 

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, JayKi said:

I wish I had the same situation so I can be friend with my friend. 

I'm the luckiest man alive with a few wonderful and close friends and an amazing wife. So yes, if I didn't have what I do I'd wish for it too. 

[askandanswer]

15 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

P-l-e-a-s-e, when will this thread end. Worse than watching water boil or cement dry. I keep hoping the light will go on for the OP. This person simply doesn't care what we have to say or is simply enjoying the attention.

( dang, I just made the thread go longer)

You should have typed in a smaller font  

[estradling75]

15 hours ago, JayKi said:

I am not really paranoid person but if my wife was in that position I would look at myself to see if I did something to make her seek attention or friendship away from me. I would ask her why is I don't fulfil all her need and do the thing she say she need. I never want to make my wife feel prisoner in our marriage by restricting what she do but I would try to convince her the right thing for us. 

Self introspection is good... talking is good... but you are still missing the point.  What do you do when your partner and you have strongly held and contrary opinions on a subject?  Talking does not make you less opinionated unless you are able to reach the other person (or be reached).

This thread is a perfect example... we have been talking for 11 pages and many days now and how much agreement have we really reached?  Your friend and her spouse are another one.  The Spouse is communicating "Danger Danger Stop", your friend is communicating "Don't care, You're wrong, I'm not listening."  Now I do not know who is right and who is wrong on the matter...  More importantly who is right and who is wrong is irrelevant compared to the fact for all the talking and all the communication they are doing... it is not working.

So what do you do then?

For those that claim to value marriage and their partner they need to both learn to put the needs of the marriage ahead of their personal desires.  One person doing it is a start and can help it continue but it has to be both because only one person bearing the load of making a marriage work breeds resentment and broken marriages.

For those that claim to value marriage in general who see from the outside a couple struggling they can not fix it for the couple.  But they can help to various degrees.  We can encourage each person to live more Christ-like lives and focus on where their priorities really should be.  And if we find ourselves as a point of contention in someone else marriage, we can remove ourselves from the picture.  Because removing temptation is a valid (if temporary) tactic.  It does not solve the problem of getting them working through things but it buys them time to do so.

Marriages are hard work..  We go from doing what is right for us individually to doing what is right for us as a couple.  This means that sometimes we have to surrender our own desires to the desires of our spouse and let them be in control (both spouses do this at different times).  And that can be very very hard.

Now a very common agreement that healthy marriages can arrive at is "If I tell you I do not like you hanging out with someone... you stop hanging out with them.  But if you tell me you do not like me hanging out some one then I will stop as well."   This requires both spouses to surrender a bit of control over their choices and actions, but most people would consider it a fair exchange.  Of course other setups can work to... the important thing is the couple is in agreement and working as one in the matter.

 

[e-eye]

On 4/24/2018 at 1:09 PM, Anddenex said:

I wish this was always true. There is a reason why bishops are often counseled from stake presidents to ask the questions that are only in the temple recommend, as those are the questions that determine worthiness to enter the temple.

It seems as though the natural man looks for justification and support in his actions.  This though I can agree with 100%.

Yes agreed.  

I have never been a bishop but all my friends that have been or when I was in a bishopric and the bishop would counsel with me they all talked about how there are two sides to the story.  

Building one's case online against the bishop's position is not sustaining the bishop and could just create more problems but I can understand seeking advice and learning when it's appropriate to talk to the stake president.  

[Vort]

On 4/25/2018 at 3:02 PM, JayKi said:

This is mean to say. I just ask her to wait until my fiancee comes to live with me in July and then we all be friend together. 

I think that's a great idea, JayKi. Do that. But until then, honor your friend's husband and her marriage, and quit going on dates with her (whether or not you call them "dates").

[person0]

On 4/25/2018 at 5:02 PM, JayKi said:

This is mean to say. I just ask her to wait until my fiancee comes to live with me in July and then we all be friend together. 

16 minutes ago, Vort said:

I think that's a great idea, JayKi. Do that. But until then, honor your friend's husband and her marriage, and quit going on dates with her (whether or not you call them "dates").

Also, don't let your fiancee live with you until after she becomes your wife.  

[JayKi]

7 hours ago, estradling75 said:

Now a very common agreement that healthy marriages can arrive at is "If I tell you I do not like you hanging out with someone... you stop hanging out with them.  But if you tell me you do not like me hanging out some one then I will stop as well."   This requires both spouses to surrender a bit of control over their choices and actions, but most people would consider it a fair exchange.  Of course other setups can work to... the important thing is the couple is in agreement and working as one in the matter.

 

If I have to then I just do what my wife wants if I can't convince her. Then if small thing I just do her decision as my own

[JayKi]

2 hours ago, Vort said:

I think that's a great idea, JayKi. Do that. But until then, honor your friend's husband and her marriage, and quit going on dates with her (whether or not you call them "dates").

Is no date we just have friendship together. I tell her today we can't hang out until July but she still come to my wedding  . And I after much prayer apologised to her husband but he is a loser who didn't accept. 

[JayKi]

2 hours ago, person0 said:

Also, don't let your fiancee live with you until after she becomes your wife.  

Yes she come live with me after we get married in Costa Rica then I come back to England and then wait for her Visa so she come to live with me.