No more games in Sacrament

[Grunt]

It looks like the Church is locking down the internet.  

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900017435/most-social-networks-will-no-longer-be-available-in-lds-meetinghouses-beginning-in-may.html

Quote

 

Access to many social media sites will no longer be available in meetinghouses after a change to the Church's internet configuration in meetinghouses beginning in May.

Meant to be a way to further the purposes of the Church, enhance worship experiences and support administrative functions, internet access in meetinghouses will be limited and not include non-Church-related internet use.

 

I can't think of many ways this would be a bad thing.

[zil]

Might make my idea of streaming RS more difficult - not sure there are any streaming platforms left.  I wonder if I can stream through my own domains.  Will have to research.

[Jane_Doe]

It's a good thing, though honestly will probably won't help the distraction issue, as people will just use their data plans instead.  But that a least means actual focused users doesn't have to share the bandwith, and the church doesn't have to pay for as much. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Grunt said:

It looks like the Church is locking down the internet.  

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900017435/most-social-networks-will-no-longer-be-available-in-lds-meetinghouses-beginning-in-may.html

I can't think of many ways this would be a bad thing.

It was bound to happen at some point.  I can think of some negatives.  But there are probably more positives.

I know that often times, we'd get into discussions, and it would be easy to connect to look something up.  Some statistic or other that was pertinent to the discussion was available.  When studying scriptures, we could look up definitions and alternate translations.  I have a copy of the 1828 dictionary on my phone. But I often used the online version.

At the same time, I know there are a lot of people who use it for distraction, more than as a tool.

[pam]

I've always been amazed sitting in Sacrament meeting how many parents hook their kids up with an IPAD so they can play games during the meeting to keep them occupied.

[Fether]

1 hour ago, Grunt said:

It looks like the Church is locking down the internet.  

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900017435/most-social-networks-will-no-longer-be-available-in-lds-meetinghouses-beginning-in-may.html

I can't think of many ways this would be a bad thing.

I find it interesting the Gamespot was one website listed as being blocked and not other popular videogame based  news sites like IGN.

But anyway. It won’t get in the way of anything. Every church resource you would need is found on LDS.org, MormonChannel, gospel library, and, if you want to supplement your lesson more, byuspeeches.

It looks like dictionaries and other reference sources will still work.

[lostinwater]

2 hours ago, Grunt said:

It looks like the Church is locking down the internet.  

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900017435/most-social-networks-will-no-longer-be-available-in-lds-meetinghouses-beginning-in-may.html

I can't think of many ways this would be a bad thing.

Thanks for posting.  Very interesting. 

My guess is this is more of a technology/expense problem than anything else.  The list of exclusions seems less about social media and more about apps with really high bandwidth usage.  

Most companies i know of will back-haul their discretionary internet through a central location, and break out to the internet there - where they can perform more robust security on it.  Assuming that is what the church does, they have to provide some form of secure connectivity back to (probably) Salt Lake or maybe one of a few regional hubs.  That can get extremely expensive - especially if you're in a country where internet infrastructure is not so good and having to pay for private-line connectivity  Maybe someone could do a bit of sleuthing for us and find out what their public IP is when connected to the network - and see where some geolocation site places that IP - how close it is to their meetinghouse.

Also, no doubt the church dislikes having to employ an army of techs on Sunday to handle the onslaught of calls from disgruntled clerks who can't upload or download reports because all the youth are streaming youtube videos.

Perhaps someone who works in or regularly interacts with the Church IT/telecom department can comment, as opposed to my guessing.

[Grunt]

8 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

It's a good thing, though honestly will probably won't help the distraction issue, as people will just use their data plans instead.  But that a least means actual focused users doesn't have to share the bandwith, and the church doesn't have to pay for as much. 

There is no service in my ward.  A robust data plan won't help anyone.

[Grunt]

8 hours ago, Carborendum said:

It was bound to happen at some point.  I can think of some negatives.  But there are probably more positives.

I know that often times, we'd get into discussions, and it would be easy to connect to look something up.  Some statistic or other that was pertinent to the discussion was available.  When studying scriptures, we could look up definitions and alternate translations.  I have a copy of the 1828 dictionary on my phone. But I often used the online version.

At the same time, I know there are a lot of people who use it for distraction, more than as a tool.

 

I don't think that will be affected for the most part.  It seems like all the LDS Tools will be open as well is Google and most websites.  It looks like they are just shutting down social media and gaming sites.

 

8 hours ago, pam said:

I've always been amazed sitting in Sacrament meeting how many parents hook their kids up with an IPAD so they can play games during the meeting to keep them occupied.

My young children color during the meeting.  I don't allow electronics in general, but I do allow reading and coloring.  During Sacrament they stop and sit quietly in their chairs.  

 

Edited May 2, 2018 by Grunt

[Lost Boy]

It didn't mention facebook.  Interesting....

I wonder if VPN will still work.  If so, it is easy to get around all of that.  Of course there are data plans.

 

[Vort]

11 hours ago, pam said:

I've always been amazed sitting in Sacrament meeting how many parents hook their kids up with an IPAD so they can play games during the meeting to keep them occupied.

This is the early 21st-century equivalent of letting your children run screaming up and down the aisles, though perhaps a tad less distracting. What on earth are people thinking?

[Guest]

11 hours ago, pam said:

I've always been amazed sitting in Sacrament meeting how many parents hook their kids up with an IPAD so they can play games during the meeting to keep them occupied.

12 minutes ago, Vort said:

This is the early 21st-century equivalent of letting your children run screaming up and down the aisles, though perhaps a tad less distracting. What on earth are people thinking?

3 hours ago, Grunt said:

My young children color during the meeting.  I don't allow electronics in general, but I do allow reading and coloring.  During Sacrament they stop and sit quietly in their chairs.  

I wonder if this isn't too big a tangent from the topic. What to other people do with their kids during sacrament?

We only allow them scriptures (or children's versions of scriptures) and related church materials until the Sacrament is served.  Then they are allowed to get some other things out.  They usually get their books out and read.  Others play various paper games.  All the children are allowed a small bag of stuff (about 6x6).  If it doesn't fit in the bag, they can't bring it to church.

We do encourage them to try to listen to the talks.  But since I usually fall asleep (it's not just the talks.  I'm just always falling asleep) I can't very well expect them to do better than I do.

We don't have tablets or phones for everyone.  So, no one is getting overloaded with electronic entertainment.  But I do find it hard to get them to listen to the talks.  I find it difficult for me to stay awake.  I just don't get enough sleep.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Guest

[Lee]

11 hours ago, pam said:

I've always been amazed sitting in Sacrament meeting how many parents hook their kids up with an IPAD so they can play games during the meeting to keep them occupied.

I let my 8 year old nephew play on his iPad during the Sacrament. I suppose he will have to play offline now.

[anatess2]

3 hours ago, Vort said:

This is the early 21st-century equivalent of letting your children run screaming up and down the aisles, though perhaps a tad less distracting. What on earth are people thinking?

Last Sunday (this is my 2nd post that relates something that happened last Sunday... I'm sure I'll be saying this in another post... last Sunday was just a great day)... tiny kids ran out of the chapel and joined a game happening outside, then they ran back into the chapel screaming only to run back out again.  During 3rd hour, we had a combined meeting and the topic was Improving Sacrament Meeting Experience.  One of the bullet points was about screaming children.  I thought the Bishop was going to lay down some law on children.  Instead, I was mildly surprised that he gave the opposite lesson!  He said to not worry about the children making a racket, chasing after them to quiet them down.  He said, it is more important that we stay in the chapel listening to the talks (ok, so in the Philippines, it is normal for tiny kids to run off and play without their parents).  He even said that the kids may be running up and down the aisle at sacrament meeting but they are learning through our example, as they see their parents listening attentively to the talks they will remember this and when they get older they'll want to sit and listen attentively too like their parents do.  I went home pondering that lesson and I came to the conclusion that he was right as it pertained to the branch - they don't want to give these new converts and any investigators any reason at all not to attend sacrament meeting.

[anatess2]

3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I wonder if this isn't too big a tangent from the topic. What to other people do with their kids during sacrament?

We only allow them scriptures (or children's versions of scriptures) and related church materials until the Sacrament is served.  Then they are allowed to get some other things out.  They usually get their books out and read.  Others play various paper games.  All the children are allowed a small bag of stuff (about 6x6).  If it doesn't fit in the bag, they can't bring it to church.

We do encourage them to try to listen to the talks.  But since I usually fall asleep (it's not just the talks.  I'm just always falling asleep) I can't very well expect them to do better than I do.

We don't have tablets or phones for everyone.  So, no one is getting overloaded with electronic entertainment.  But I do find it hard to get them to listen to the talks.  I find it difficult for me to stay awake.  I just don't get enough sleep.

When my kids were little they have a Sunday bag.  That bag is only used on Sundays.  The bag only has gospel themed activities.  This is what I remember was in the bag:  board puzzles of LDS paintings, gospel stories and quotes coloring books, gospel bingo (great for listening to talks to catch bingo words... and yes, I've had a kid yell bingo in the middle of a talk), Book of Mormon action figures, and children's religious books.  The kids are not allowed to open the bag until the deacons are released to sit with their parents.

[mgridle]

16 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

 One of the bullet points was about screaming children. 

And we wonder why people don't want to have kids anymore.  I really dislike the accommodating stance for anyone and everything these days.

Sorry your Bishop is an idiot, "He even said that the kids may be running up and down the aisle at sacrament meeting but they are learning through our example, as they see their parents listening attentively to the talks they will remember this and when they get older they'll want to sit and listen attentively too like their parents do."

No they don't. Yes, kids learn by our example about how we behave ourselves and how we expect them to behave also.  No, what happens if parents are listening attentively and children are running up and down and being hooligans is that children learn they are "special".  One rule for everyone else and a different rule for me. They will grow up thinking, well my parents listened attentively, but I don't have to because I'm special.

I swear . . .raising the next generation has gone down the tubes-especially when leaders don't lead, they allow themselves to be lead.

So inconvenience the entire ward, make everyone in the ward suffer and even condone it! b/c he is afraid of "offending" a new convert or investigator.  Except that if I'm a new investigator and I see a bunch of kids running like wildmen up and down the isles in and out of church-honestly I don't want to be a part of that organization-why b/c they don't have their crap together-it is an "anything goes" "let's just be nice and kind and not offend".  God's House is a house of order, not of Chaos and condoning little children running up and down in and out just promotes Chaos.

You can easily as a leader stand up and say, we understand and empathize with parents who are new, who have young children, or who have misbehaving children.  We ask out of consideration for others when you have a misbehaving child to please reverently take that child out of the sacrament area to a location where they can be disciplined to allow the rest of the congregation the opportunity to clearly understand the talk.

Simple, easy, clear, no offense.  I swear modern culture . . .

Edited May 2, 2018 by mgridle

[anatess2]

25 minutes ago, mgridle said:

And we wonder why people don't want to have kids anymore.  I really dislike the accommodating stance for anyone and everything these days.

Sorry your Bishop is an idiot, "He even said that the kids may be running up and down the aisle at sacrament meeting but they are learning through our example, as they see their parents listening attentively to the talks they will remember this and when they get older they'll want to sit and listen attentively too like their parents do."

No they don't. Yes, kids learn by our example about how we behave ourselves and how we expect them to behave also.  No, what happens if parents are listening attentively and children are running up and down and being hooligans is that children learn they are "special".  One rule for everyone else and a different rule for me. They will grow up thinking, well my parents listened attentively, but I don't have to because I'm special.

I swear . . .raising the next generation has gone down the tubes-especially when leaders don't lead, they allow themselves to be lead.

So inconvenience the entire ward, make everyone in the ward suffer and even condone it! b/c he is afraid of "offending" a new convert or investigator.  Except that if I'm a new investigator and I see a bunch of kids running like wildmen up and down the isles in and out of church-honestly I don't want to be a part of that organization-why b/c they don't have their crap together-it is an "anything goes" "let's just be nice and kind and not offend".  God's House is a house of order, not of Chaos and condoning little children running up and down in and out just promotes Chaos.

You can easily as a leader stand up and say, we understand and empathize with parents who are new, who have young children, or who have misbehaving children.  We ask out of consideration for others when you have a misbehaving child to please reverently take that child out of the sacrament area to a location where they can be disciplined to allow the rest of the congregation the opportunity to clearly understand the talk.

Simple, easy, clear, no offense.  I swear modern culture . . .

This only applies in American culture.  It doesn't apply to Filipino culture, especially in the setting of a Filipino ward building like mine.  And I take massive offense at you calling my bishop (actually branch president) an idiot.

P.S.  And I'm calling you out too @Carborendum, for liking the post.

Edited May 2, 2018 by anatess2

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

This only applies in American culture.  It doesn't apply to Filipino culture, especially in the setting of a Filipino ward building like mine.  And I take massive offense at you calling my bishop (actually branch president) an idiot.

P.S.  And I'm calling you out too @Carborendum, for liking the post.

I agree with him.  I find it completely unacceptable to let kids run wild while trying to listen to a talk being given.

Your branch president is short sighted.  Is that a more acceptable insult than "idiot"?  He said they see our example.  Not really.  We teach by PRECEPT & by Example.  Little children don't even know what to look for when they see an example.  They must be shown AND taught.  True, they may eventually get older and learn and figure it out.  But little children can learn MUCH faster when we use a little bit of force when it comes to things that have a direct negative impact on others.

You say it is different in Filipino culture.  OK. Who am I to argue with that?  But the sentiment @mgridle offered is absolutely correct for American culture.

[mgridle]

20 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

And I take massive offense at you calling my bishop (actually branch president) an idiot.

Okay, you are choosing to take offense at it.  That is your choice take offense-you can certainly do so if you wish.

I don't know him.  He could be a great guy, but in this instance he is being an idiot. Idiot means "of low intelligence", he is being of extreme low intelligence to claim that children will simply observe their parents sitting quietly listening and therefore they will do the same when they are grown when no individual or adult has actually taught them how to sit still and listen through discipline.

He is being of low intelligence when he claims that it is more important to not offend new converts and investigators by allowing their kids to rule the roost and run around the chapel like hooligans.  He is being of low intelligence to in effect set the presumed needs and wants of new converts and investigators (i.e. they will be "offended and will NEVER come back" if we tell them their kids can't act like monsters in church) above the needs of the ward.  Which he clearly did.  He clearly had an item that has been brought up before him as a concern from ward members (children behaving like monsters), and he set the presumed needs of a few above the needs of the ward. 

He may still be a great guy, man called of God, etc. but in this instance he is an idiot. That's okay, Bishops are allowed to be imperfect and to be idiots from time to time-it happens.

[anatess2]

4 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I agree with him.  I find it completely unacceptable to let kids run wild while trying to listen to a talk being given.

Your branch president is short sighted.  Is that a more acceptable insult than "idiot"?  He said they see our example.  Not really.  We teach by PRECEPT & by Example.  Little children don't even know what to look for when they see an example.  They must be shown AND taught.  True, they may eventually get older and learn and figure it out.  But little children can learn MUCH faster when we use a little bit of force when it comes to things that have a direct negative impact on others.

You say it is different in Filipino culture.  OK. Who am I to argue with that?  But the sentiment @mgridle offered is absolutely correct for American culture.

It may be correct for American culture but my post specifically stated this is a Filipino branch.  The branch president was not short-sighted and I explained that in the post after I pondered his lesson.  The branch president's objective is to keep adults focused on the talk and to remove any obstacle from parents in attending sacrament.   This is a branch of brand new converts who are trying to increase priesthood holders so they can become a ward.

I, an adult, even have a difficult time concentrating on the talk when there is no AC in the middle of tropical summer so the windows are wide open.  The property wall is 10 feet away from the windows and beyond that wall is huts (one plywood for a wall) and so you have a cacophony of barking dogs, crowing chickens, neighbors talking to each other over fences, radios blaring, children screaming all competing with the chapel's sound system.  Children inside the chapel hear all these things and so they do what they normally do, they run towards the sound of a fun game being played, especially as these are children who only started attending sacrament a few months ago.

Children feeling "I'm special" is alien to Filipino families.  We are a clanish people.  Children are born into a family as just another cog on the wheel.  You don't have just parents whipping kids butts, you have grandparents and aunts and uncles too and even neighbors.  It's easy behaving in a Catholic Church as most everybody attend Catholic Churches and the Church building is a massive structure that compels reverence - you walk in and the ornate decor with the giant sculptures of saints and Christ hanging on the cross just puts that hush over children.  You walk into a ward chapel and it's just like you're in your house.

 

[mgridle]

12 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

You say it is different in Filipino culture.  OK. Who am I to argue with that?  But the sentiment @mgridle offered is absolutely correct for American culture.

There is a reason why American culture came to be so dominate. It was in the strength of how the youth was taught. Respect your elders, have manners and decorum, personal responsibility, take care of your own problems, etc.

[anatess2]

4 minutes ago, mgridle said:

Okay, you are choosing to take offense at it.  That is your choice take offense-you can certainly do so if you wish.

I don't know him.  He could be a great guy, but in this instance he is being an idiot. Idiot means "of low intelligence", he is being of extreme low intelligence to claim that children will simply observe their parents sitting quietly listening and therefore they will do the same when they are grown when no individual or adult has actually taught them how to sit still and listen through discipline.

He is being of low intelligence when he claims that it is more important to not offend new converts and investigators by allowing their kids to rule the roost and run around the chapel like hooligans.  He is being of low intelligence to in effect set the presumed needs and wants of new converts and investigators (i.e. they will be "offended and will NEVER come back" if we tell them their kids can't act like monsters in church) above the needs of the ward.  Which he clearly did.  He clearly had an item that has been brought up before him as a concern from ward members (children behaving like monsters), and he set the presumed needs of a few above the needs of the ward. 

He may still be a great guy, man called of God, etc. but in this instance he is an idiot. That's okay, Bishops are allowed to be imperfect and to be idiots from time to time-it happens.

Maybe you should stop yapping and start listening.  I may admire your stance against modernists but you have ZERO CLUE as to what you are talking about.  There are no snowflakes in the Philippines outside of the capital city and its metro suburbs - and that's both literally and figuratively.

And no, nobody brought up that item to him as a concern.  Nobody here is concerned about that.  The only concern is that it doesn't "feel" like the Catholic Church that everybody came from.

[mgridle]

1 minute ago, anatess2 said:

It may be correct for American culture but my post specifically stated this is a Filipino branch.  The branch president was not short-sighted and I explained that in the post after I pondered his lesson.  The branch president's objective is to keep adults focused on the talk and to remove any obstacle from parents in attending sacrament.   This is a branch of brand new converts who are trying to increase priesthood holders so they can become a ward.

I, an adult, even have a difficult time concentrating on the talk when there is no AC in the middle of tropical summer so the windows are wide open.  The property wall is 10 feet away from the windows and beyond that wall is huts (one plywood for a wall) and so you have a cacophony of barking dogs, crowing chickens, neighbors talking to each other over fences, radios blaring, children screaming all competing with the chapel's sound system.  Children inside the chapel hear all these things and so they do what they normally do, they run towards the sound of a fun game being played, especially as these are children who only started attending sacrament a few months ago.

Children feeling "I'm special" is alien to Filipino families.  We are a clanish people.  Children are born into a family as just another cog on the wheel.  You don't have just parents whipping kids butts, you have grandparents and aunts and uncles too and even neighbors.  It's easy behaving in a Catholic Church as most everybody attend Catholic Churches and the Church building is a massive structure that compels reverence - you walk in and the ornate decor with the giant sculptures of saints and Christ hanging on the cross just puts that hush over children.  You walk into a ward chapel and it's just like you're in your house.

 

Thought you said Bishop, my fault.  Maybe the BP should have a separate room where children can go during sacrament. Point being it's not appropriate to have kids running up and down in and out during sacrament.  If the objective is to keep adults focused on the talk-that alone will distract adults-hard to hear the talk with a bunch of kids making noise.

[mgridle]

2 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Maybe you should stop yapping and start listening.  I may admire your stance against modernists but you have ZERO CLUE as to what you are talking about.  There are no snowflakes in the Philippines outside of the capital city and its metro suburbs - and that's both literally and figuratively.

And no, nobody brought up that item to him as a concern.  Nobody here is concerned about that.  The only concern is that it doesn't "feel" like the Catholic Church that everybody came from.

I've upset you. Okay, I'm bowing out. Not a fight worth fighting.

[anatess2]

8 minutes ago, mgridle said:

There is a reason why American culture came to be so dominate. It was in the strength of how the youth was taught. Respect your elders, have manners and decorum, personal responsibility, take care of your own problems, etc.

You make me laugh.  That is not WHY American culture came to be so dominate.  As a matter of fact, American culture does not dominate.  What made America the shining beacon on the hill that makes a lot of people want to emulate is your Constitution, not your family values.

And no, let's not start a pissing contest against Filipino families, or even Asian families in general, and American families.  There is a reason Asians dominate the top levels of the American education system.

 

Edited May 2, 2018 by anatess2