Noah's Flood

[person0]

1 minute ago, MarginOfError said:

It is far more likely that the Hebrews coopted the lunar calendar* into their creation myth (myth being the academic term for origin story).

So, do you not believe that Adam observed the Sabbath?  What about Abraham?

[Guest]

On 5/4/2018 at 4:55 PM, person0 said:

I believe that the earth could potentially be up to millions of years old if counting from the beginning of its creation.  However, from the moment of the fall of Adam until today, it is less than 7000 years old.  Continental movement would be easily accomplished by the Lord.

Yeah, I saw it happen in the movie 2012.  It was neutrinos, I tell yah!  Neutrinos!!!

$200 million budget.  Over $750 Million worldwide gross.  Who would have thought it would be so popular?

@person0

Just curious.  If millions, why not billions?  We're far away from the thousands.  So, why not billions?

Edited May 6, 2018 by Guest

[Lost Boy]

7 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

Zero evidence for a flood is like saying there's zero evidence the world is round. The geologic evidence of catastrophic flooding is everywhere. Sedimentary rocks are found on every continent. Even geologists don't debate the reality that at one time or another the land was covered in water. 

I cannot find a single credible site that suggests through scientific evidence that there was a global flood. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, MarginOfError said:

* The lunar calendar was developed on the observation that the moon orbits the earth every 28 days with remarkable predictability. That 28 day cycle was broken into four 7 day periods for convenience of tracking time.

28 days?  Since when?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_calendar

Edited May 6, 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

57 minutes ago, Lost Boy said:

I cannot find a single credible site that suggests through scientific evidence that there was a global flood. 

How about this one?

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/evidence-for-a-flood-102813115/

[Guest]

.

Edited May 6, 2018 by Guest

[MarginOfError]

1 hour ago, person0 said:

So, do you not believe that Adam observed the Sabbath?  What about Abraham?

I'd be interested in seeing any documentary evidence you might have laying around that isn't based on biblical inerrancy.

[MarginOfError]

33 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

28 days?  Since when?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_calendar

Yeah, yeah. If you want to get technical. The Babylonians had that figured out though, and used an occasional intercalary month to keep on track. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_calendar

Oddly enough, this is how the POSIX standards keeps on track with modern time by inserting leap seconds every few years.

[Just_A_Guy]

The trouble with speaking of “Biblical literalism” is that it assumes the Bible, as a whole, is all of the same genre; rather than a collection of books of differing genres.  

Genesis talks of a “firmament”, based on an ancient Hebrew cosmology suggesting that the earth was more-or-less a giant snow globe.  I don’t consider myself bound to that, any more than I am bound to references of late-19th-century apostles who spoke of the “ether” as the substance through which light is conducted.  I’m also open to the possibility that Job may be only very loosely literal; based on the fact that when you dig into the book, most of its punch lies in the dialogues rather than the story that frames them.  By contrast, the books of Samuel and Kings and Chronicles are clearly intended to be primarily historical (as near-easterners of that period understood “history”), and understood that their readers may “fact check” them to some degree.  And the Gospel narratives themselves, as well as their treatment both by other NT writers and by early Christian writings, strongly suggest that from the get-go these anecdotes were intended to be regarded as duly witnessed and factually true (if not always in perfect chronological order).

To the extent that Joseph Smith saw and conversed with (or wrote extensively about) pre-Davidic figures (Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham); I strongly believe that they actually existed.  Whether they actually did all the things attributed to them, on the scale that the Pentateuch reports—there, I don’t know.  And I’m weirdly comfortable with not knowing.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, MarginOfError said:

Yeah, yeah. If you want to get technical. The Babylonians had that figured out though, and used an occasional intercalary month to keep on track. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_calendar

Oddly enough, this is how the POSIX standards keeps on track with modern time by inserting leap seconds every few years.

Technical?  I don't understand.  It may seem like a small difference.  But to me, it is like saying the week is 6 days instead of 7.  Then someone points out it is 7 days, and you say,"yeah, yeah, if you want to get technical."  Huh?

[Rob Osborn]

3 hours ago, Lost Boy said:

I cannot find a single credible site that suggests through scientific evidence that there was a global flood. 

So, let me interpret what you just said- 'I cannot find a single credible site according the atheistic and dogmatic way of man's understanding, that suggests through accepted atheistic means, that there was a global flood"

[person0]

4 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Just curious.  If millions, why not billions?  We're far away from the thousands.  So, why not billions? 

I really just said millions to emphasize that I do not personally place time limits on the length of the creative periods, which as far as I understand, is also consistent with the teachings of the Church.  It could have been 6 literal days, or 6 thousand years, or anything.  In regard to the age of the earth, I really only care to have some level of understanding of how old the earth is from the moment of the fall of Adam; and I think we have that, especially in consideration of modern revelation.

[person0]

2 hours ago, MarginOfError said:

I'd be interested in seeing any documentary evidence you might have laying around that isn't based on biblical inerrancy.

Well, I consider myself to be fairly cooperative, so for me this is sufficient:

Quote

The Sabbath was a holy day before the giving of the law, even from the earliest times; the sacredness of the number 7; the narrative of the manna; and the narrative of the man gathering sticks; but we have no evidence of its observance in patriarchal times. This is no doubt due to the scantiness of the record, for the Sabbath is an eternal principle and would have existed from the days of Adam, whenever the gospel was on the earth among men.
(Bible Dictionary - Sabbath) emphasis added

The Church both recognizes that there is no evidence, and yet still proclaims that the Sabbath would have existed from the days of Adam.  To me, it makes the most sense that this would have been the case, so I have no difficulty in accepting it.

[Lost Boy]

3 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

So, let me interpret what you just said- 'I cannot find a single credible site according the atheistic and dogmatic way of man's understanding, that suggests through accepted atheistic means, that there was a global flood"

I can't stop you from interpreting the way you want to.  I figure God gave us a brain to solve questions about the world around us. I am sure you have no issue with the science behind the automobile, or iPad, or medicine, etc. Geology is no different. It is observe, hypothesize, and verify. 

The scientific method is not anti-faith. God is a God of order. He knows the beginning from the end.  We live according to his plan. If there was a global flood, I don't believe God would erase scientific evidence of it away. What would be the purpose for doing so? 

[Rob Osborn]

12 minutes ago, Lost Boy said:

I can't stop you from interpreting the way you want to.  I figure God gave us a brain to solve questions about the world around us. I am sure you have no issue with the science behind the automobile, or iPad, or medicine, etc. Geology is no different. It is observe, hypothesize, and verify. 

The scientific method is not anti-faith. God is a God of order. He knows the beginning from the end.  We live according to his plan. If there was a global flood, I don't believe God would erase scientific evidence of it away. What would be the purpose for doing so? 

There indeed was a global flood. The evidence for it is everywhere and staggeringly real. The real question is- who's really trying to erase the scientific evidence of it? The answer is indeed rather troubling because as a fact, many in the scientific community are on the agenda to erase God altogether. But that agenda is way deeper. It's a collective agenda to erase God, morals, and consequence from society and the Devil is the very author of it. 

[MarginOfError]

6 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Technical?  I don't understand.  It may seem like a small difference.  But to me, it is like saying the week is 6 days instead of 7.  Then someone points out it is 7 days, and you say,"yeah, yeah, if you want to get technical."  Huh?

You know that thing about how a year has 365 days. Except that it doesnt, but everyone treats it like it does because we like to work in whole numbers..... it's kind of like that.

[MarginOfError]

5 hours ago, person0 said:

Well, I consider myself to be fairly cooperative, so for me this is sufficient:

The Church both recognizes that there is no evidence, and yet still proclaims that the Sabbath would have existed from the days of Adam.  To me, it makes the most sense that this would have been the case, so I have no difficulty in accepting it.

Ah, so we're skirting biblical inerrancy by claiming the bible dictionary is inerrant. Cool.

[Lost Boy]

8 hours ago, Carborendum said:

How about this one?

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/evidence-for-a-flood-102813115/

I do find that source credible. However, you must not have read the article. It had nothing to do with a global flood. 

[Lost Boy]

2 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

There indeed was a global flood. The evidence for it is everywhere and staggeringly real. The real question is- who's really trying to erase the scientific evidence of it? The answer is indeed rather troubling because as a fact, many in the scientific community are on the agenda to erase God altogether. But that agenda is way deeper. It's a collective agenda to erase God, morals, and consequence from society and the Devil is the very author of it. 

So there aren't any good Christian geologists out there that are willing to put their necks out there and share the evidence? Not even byu geologists give any evidence of a global flood. 

If it happened 7000 years ago, there should be evidence all over the world. There isn't. 

[askandanswer]

11 minutes ago, Lost Boy said:

So there aren't any good Christian geologists out there that are willing to put their necks out there and share the evidence? Not even byu geologists give any evidence of a global flood. 

If it happened 7000 years ago, there should be evidence all over the world. There isn't. 

Perhaps not scientific evidence, but certainly a form of evidence, and it is from a great many parts of the world

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_myth

[Lost Boy]

5 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

Perhaps not scientific evidence, but certainly a form of evidence, and it is from a great many parts of the world

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_myth

The article clearly states that there is no evidence of a global flood. 

[askandanswer]

On 8/29/2017 at 10:02 PM, Carborendum said:

The Houston Temple was closed for regular maintenance this past weekend (at the beginning of the storm).  They were scheduled to open again in two weeks (just after the storm is over).  I think they'll need just a little more time.

 

When Carb flooded the Houston Temple a few months back, the Temple, as illustrated above, was certainly flooded. However, it was not immersed or completely covered. I can well imagine a situation where the earth was flooded but not covered or immersed. And perhaps this lower level of flooding would not leave as much geological evidence, just as, i suspect, there will be little geological evidence of Carb's recent flooding activities.

[askandanswer]

Just now, Lost Boy said:

The article clearly states that there is no evidence of a global flood. 

The myths are the evidence. The similarities between the myths, in so many diverse places, I think, is a form of evidence, suggesting that there is some kernal of truth to the myths.

[askandanswer]

From one of the footnotes to the Wikipedia article. I suspect if you examined more of the footnotes you would find more evidence

http://discovermagazine.com/2012/jul-aug/06-biblical-type-floods-real-absolutely-enormous

[Lost Boy]

57 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

 

When Carb flooded the Houston Temple a few months back, the Temple, as illustrated above, was certainly flooded. However, it was not immersed or completely covered. I can well imagine a situation where the earth was flooded but not covered or immersed. And perhaps this lower level of flooding would not leave as much geological evidence, just as, i suspect, there will be little geological evidence of Carb's recent flooding activities.

But then that would be local flooding only. The biblical account claims that the whole earth was covered.