Setting aside the church to keep a career?

[john4truth]

On 8/8/2018 at 9:00 PM, MormonGator said:

 

Saying it doesn't make it true. Different states, different situations different outcomes. It's very true my wife worked in a hospital 32 years with many non residents 1 out of 3 Paid Do you live in the U.S. .. The plan by many, successfully, is system failures. Education is good.

Edited September 1, 2018 by john4truth
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[pwrfrk]

On 6/27/2018 at 6:53 AM, CV75 said:

Please provide some examples form the cop world -- thank you,

ANd exactly how do you expect that to be done on the internet?  Do you expect names, departments and case numbers?

[CV75]

3 hours ago, pwrfrk said:

ANd exactly how do you expect that to be done on the internet?  Do you expect names, departments and case numbers?

No, and @john4truth answered my question to my satisfaction.

[john4truth]

On 6/27/2018 at 1:21 AM, person0 said:

There is no double standard.  Priorities should be: God, Family, Employer, Church, in that order.  Setting aside Church callings, etc, is one thing; setting aside the Gospel is another.  It is never acceptable to set aside the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and especially our covenants.  However, God said, "Thou shalt not kill," and yet, He also commanded Nephi to kill Laban.  Sometimes what one person may perceive as 'setting aside the gospel' may not be, depending on the circumstance.  Ultimately, our responsibility is to God; however, I feel it fairly safe to suggest that a sincere disciple should be able to come to this conclusion on their own by the influence of the Spirit.  If someone claims they are setting aside the Gospel in order to keep their career, they are probably doing exactly that, by acting outside the bounds of what is appropriate, in some way or another, and trying to justify their reasons.  One cannot justify their own actions, Christ does that (or doesn't); but one can receive the witness from the Spirit that their actions are just.

The answers to questions about ambiguities are so numerous that it is not reasonable to try and treat every case in a legalistic code of behavior.  We are taught correct principles and then we govern ourselves.  We will know long before the last day if we are guilty before God.

I attended a meeting of leadership with an apostle and he said we should treat them like others. Our  challenge is we must love them first. Any decisions must be based on love.

Edited August 10, 2018 by john4truth
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[john4truth]

On 6/27/2018 at 5:08 AM, Fether said:

I would disagree with @Iggy. It is our responsibility to minister to all. When we see others beginning to act in such a way that takes them from Christ, we should step in.

If you read the talk “A holier approach to ministering” (https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/neil-l-andersen_a-holier-approach-to-ministering/) Neil L Anderson lists many situations in which we ought to reach out to others that appear to be struggling. None of these situations fit under any “umbrella” beyond that of friend.

“Let us not be self-righteous, but let us be spiritually courageous in ministering in a holier way, specifically by strengthening the faith of others.

To stir your thinking, consider these possible situations:

• You notice that a roommate spends an inordinate amount of time playing games on an iPhone but rarely engages in conversations relating to gospel topics.

• You have a sense that a friend may have a problem with pornography.

• You are in a conversation with friends and notice that the language being used is edgy and inappropriate.

• You smell alcohol or marijuana in a friend’s car.

• You see prescription drugs that you know are not being used properly.

• Your friends are spending enormous time taking and posting pictures of themselves that move to the edge of immodesty.

• You notice that someone who once seemed to love to talk about the Book of Mormon now never mentions it.

• You notice that a friend who once seemed to love to go to the temple now is not going.

• You notice a friend who once spoke with faith about the prophet’s counsel now speaks critically.

• You have a returned missionary roommate who has become very casual in wearing clothing that reflects temple covenants.

• You notice a friend who finds reasons to go places on Sunday other than your ward.

• You have a sense that a friend has started to be dishonest in small things.

• You have a classmate who began the semester very engaged in your religion class but who now seems disinterested and disengaged.

• You know someone who had a light in his or her eyes after returning from a mission, but now that light seems to have faded.

• You have a friend who jokes about sacred things.

• You have a friend who came to BYU with the expectation of finding an eternal companion and hasn’t. The discouragement with dating has moved to “God doesn’t love me.”

• You see a friend’s faith being affected by compromised worthiness and his need to repent.”

I beg to disagree. I don't see anyone couseling the liars, those with filthy mouth s, those who make the Church look bad being rude, the crooked attorney's, the police that cover for fellow officers who are unchaste to let teenagers out of tickets, or all of us since we all sin. Only the bishop should privately meet with unchaste. This in response to anyone who thinks they have the right to chastise. If they are close friends I might feel led in love to visit with them.

Edited August 10, 2018 by john4truth
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[Fether]

28 minutes ago, john4truth said:

I beg to disagree. I don't see anyone couseling the liars, those with filthy mouth s, those who make the Church look bad being rude, the crooked attorney's, the police that cover for fellow officers who are unchaste to let teenagers out of tickets, or all of us since we all sin. Only the bishop should privately meet with unchaste. This in response to anyone who thinks they have the right to chastise. If they are close friends I might feel led in love to visit with them.

So The Apostle Elder Anderson was just kidding when he said what he did in the quote I shared?

You don’t see people counseling them, but maybe we ought to. I don’t argue that we ought to go out and correct the actions of every man we come across, but when we have a friend falling short, that knows better and is fully active in the church, we better step in and speak with them.

This is the gospel of Jesusnchrist, this isn’t just some ideology we chose to live by. If you don’t repent, you are damned. Don’t play around with that! When you have a friend that you see or suspect is struggling with sin, speak up!

[pwrfrk]

On 6/27/2018 at 4:08 AM, Fether said:

I would disagree with @Iggy. It is our responsibility to minister to all. When we see others beginning to act in such a way that takes them from Christ, we should step in.

If you read the talk “A holier approach to ministering” (https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/neil-l-andersen_a-holier-approach-to-ministering/) Neil L Anderson lists many situations in which we ought to reach out to others that appear to be struggling. None of these situations fit under any “umbrella” beyond that of friend.

 

I will not go through the entire list, but I will say that in some instances you just need to step away.  Some could even be none of my/your business.

[john4truth]

On 8/10/2018 at 10:53 AM, Fether said:

 

We can find a general authority to quote to make any point, but there are no green beings living on the moon. The fact is judgemental members are the single greatest cause for why half the members do not even consider themselves members. Any advice must be Christ like and done only in love with love.  Our first obligation is to truly love them. If we don't, we are the problem and must walk away. With out true love we face damnation. Even every disciplinary council are directed that the finding s should be made entirely on love for the member!!!

Edited September 1, 2018 by john4truth
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[Fether]

8 minutes ago, john4truth said:

We can find a general authority to quote to make any point. The fact is judgemental members are the single greatest cause for why half the members do not even consider themselves members. Any advice must be Christ like and done only in love with love.  Our first obligation is to truly love them. If we don't, we are the problem and must walk away. With out true love we face damnation.

I agree, I never suggested in my comment that we ought to judge others or act out of pride.

I am saying that we can’t be fearful to reach out to those who are struggling and offer assistance. Simply saying “it isn’t my business” makes us no different than the priest that walked past the wounded man in the parable of the Good Samaritan. We need to be courageous and help our friends that are steeped in sin.

[Fether]

10 hours ago, pwrfrk said:

Some could even be none of my/your business.

I suggest you go and re-Read the parable of the Good Samaritan 

Luke 10:25-37

obviously the wounded man was none of any of those three men’s business. but one still stopped to help. 

Edited August 11, 2018 by Fether

[pwrfrk]

Ok.  I will.  Then I'm going to dissect that list and explain why I feel some of it is none of my/your business.

[Blackmarch]

On 6/27/2018 at 12:52 AM, pwrfrk said:

When you see something like this, is it wrong to confront the other person and tell them their conduct is improper?
 

 

maybe if you're that person's bishop and you've gotten the revelation to do so.. or if you're the parent of said person.

i agree with person 0's order for the most part, however I think that if it came down to the line and employer and church were absolutely 100% incompatible that a person would be blessed for choosing God's job over the world's job.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Blackmarch

[Vort]

13 minutes ago, Blackmarch said:

I think that if it came down to the line and employer and church were absolutely 100% incompatible that a person would be blessed for choosing God's job over the world's job.

I think this is always true, 100% of the time. But I also think that God's blessings are very rarely monetary in nature. When the windows of heaven open, it's not to throw cash down to us.

[Blackmarch]

1 minute ago, Vort said:

I think this is always true, 100% of the time. But I also think that God's blessings are very rarely monetary in nature. When the windows of heaven open, it's not to throw cash down to us.

i've known people who made that decision where it was either the job or losing the home... and having made the sacrifice, things happened; the dad got a raise, people who had extra food  would just happen to stop by and ask if they wanted the extras, people at work needed someone to fill in so dad was able to get those, all sorts of things which can have a monetary value attached to it.

[NeuroTypical]

2 hours ago, Vort said:

But I also think that God's blessings are very rarely monetary in nature. When the windows of heaven open, it's not to throw cash down to us.

 

[softly making achem-ming finance clerk noises] 

In this last month, I've written checks for (among other things) rent, car payments, funeral expenses, and medical treatment.  Pretty standard month, actually.  (It is absolutely true though, fast offering monies are pretty much never just handed over in the form of cash to a person in need.)

Edited August 29, 2018 by NeuroTypical

[john4truth]

On 8/1/2018 at 3:10 PM, NeuroTypical said:

I find it endlessly fascinating how people can have similar experiences, and walk away with very, very different perspectives.  Hi john4truth, I am currently the finance clerk in my ward.  No check is written without my involvement.  The bishop and I know more about how fast offerings are used than any bishopric counselor, so if that's what you were, it might explain some of this:

Only in one ward the Church has grown lol

Unalterable rule of the universe: "if you have five, then you can't give away six".   I mean, Christ can get away with it, but not us mortals.  How weird to see such a basic, common sense thing get phrased in terms of worrying about ability to spend, more than the needy.  

Some wards have reverted back to Relief Society Priesthood and Fast Offering fundraising!!!!!!!!!

Nuff said

I know you must have common sense and my comments do come across to extreme. I have been a financial clerk for bishops that focused on taking care of the needy and those who focused on minimizing spending on the needy. You can dissect what I say all you want. The scriptures say if you do not take care of the Needy any way you want to dissect it, that you have nothing! You can also dissect if you are luke warm he will spew you out of his mouth. I am not complaining about building size. There is a chapel in a more wealthy area that is as plush as the temple I know another building that has had a leak and wet carpet for 4 bishops and many other problems, the building reaks of mildew. My comments are not about the priesthood, rather those paid and if you were educated in Church teaching you would know buildings should be eqipped equally. You totally missed the boat on your assessment of the comments. I am sorry you are not better informed and blindly defend problems you know nothing about. I ran a multi million dollar business and policy should be followed by the paid leaders of maintenance. If you were familiar with the Handbook you would know many policies are not being followed. LoL

Nonsense needs correcting. I guess you support publicly announcing help from fast funds as it does prevent the poor from asking for help. I have seen it....I have served on two stake council's and know for a fact this has nothing to do with with your John Lennon. It has everything thing to do with being Christ Like.  There are different problems in different areas and I am admit I know nothing about your Utopia. The feelings of some members here, not me because I don't know, is some Church professionals must be either competing by saving money or getting bonuses for saving money by ignoring the handbook. Bishops have too much to worry about. 

I am sure you have never, as I have, been in a high council meeting when the professional Church leader had to be straightened out , by the Stake President, that the priesthood runs the Church and finds it frustrating that they have to go behind professionals and make them do their job. The criticizing in the earlier post was not justified for I have served in almost all callings and my mistake was addressing problems before the less informed. I simply am geared to fix problems and not comment if I don't know the situation. Most in this area would guess you were born in Utah or Idaho and believe acknowledgement of problems is apostate. I have set in meetings with members of the 12 apostles that say otherwise. Everyone I have met encourage fixing problems and everyone in a ward should not know who is receiving help. I do my part and do anything I can to help the needy, including being a member of six clubs dedicated to the same with all income going to the needy. I didn't grow up in the Church but joined 35 years ago. I was poor and learned first hand what pretending to care for widows and orphans is. The only limit for bishops is medical bills. Tithing is used to help the poor, and is not intended to turn a chapel into a castle. Money is used as The Lord sees fit... the book of Alma covers this. Talking care of the poor was added as the 4th mission of the church long ago, with out a disclaimer "only if you have enough fast offering". I am confident this comes before chandeliers in meeting houses. 

I was in a meeting with Elder Packard where a Bishop complained about baptism of too many poor and fast expenses. It didn't go well for him! LoL

Edited September 1, 2018 by john4truth
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[john4truth]

On 8/8/2018 at 9:00 PM, MormonGator said:

 

Edited September 1, 2018 by john4truth
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[Guest MormonGator]

2 minutes ago, john4truth said:

Dream on John Lennon

? Dream On is by Aerosmith, not John Lennon. 

[Guest]

I believe it is well documented how unwise it is for people in the cheap seats to tell someone how he "should" do his job.

Edited September 1, 2018 by Guest

[john4truth]

On 8/29/2018 at 4:39 PM, NeuroTypical said:

 

No cash should be but the only only limit on a bishop is medical bills you have a lot more fast offering given than here

Edited September 1, 2018 by john4truth
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[john4truth]

The problem is in the Church there are many "unwritten orders of things" it's only those non doctrine rules I object to. If you are not aware the Church made an official statement that the General Authority that used that term retracted it. The Church says if it is not written it is not doctrine. You could write a book just on all the traditions and beliefs that are false docrine. Like you should never touch the sacrament with your left hand. Yes my stake president is aware and working to fix things in an orderly way

[john4truth]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

 

Edited September 1, 2018 by john4truth
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[john4truth]

LOL that is a good one funny how you can tell when people are assuming incorrectly.

Edited September 1, 2018 by john4truth
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[john4truth]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

 

This statement makes my point better than I could. It is amazing what people think they know.

Edited September 1, 2018 by john4truth
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[john4truth]

1 hour ago, john4truth said:

 

Some still think that women can't say opening prayer and divorced can't be bishops LoL

Edited September 1, 2018 by john4truth
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