receiving a fulness of joy


theplains
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On 7/27/2018 at 10:19 PM, theplains said:

I don't believe Joseph Smith's teaching that Heavenly Father was once a man who became a God so I don't believe
in the idea of heavenly parents and exaltation to godhood. But I do believe Christ has given us grace and his atonement
gives us power in that death and sin will not defeat us.

Thanks,
Jim

You don’t believe in it, yet it seems this and other Latter-Day Saint doctrinal consents are on your mind much of the time. Why do you seem to have such an intense and abiding and iinterest in things you find so erroneous and objectionable? 

What do you think the following verse of scripture means?

18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. (2 Cor 3)

 

 

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21 hours ago, Jersey Boy said:

What do you think the following verse of scripture means?

18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. (2 Cor 3)

I read this commentary by Adam Clarke - "The Jews were not able to look on the face of Moses, the mediator of the old
covenant, and therefore he was obliged to veil it; but all we Christians, with face uncovered, behold, as clearly as we can
see our own natural face in a mirror, the glorious promises and privileges of the Gospel of Christ; and while we contemplate,
we anticipate them by desire and hope, and apprehend them by faith, and are changed from the glory there represented
to the enjoyment of the thing which is represented, even the glorious image - righteousness and true holiness - of the God
of glory.The Jews were not able to look on the face of Moses, the mediator of the old covenant, and therefore he was
obliged to veil it; but all we Christians, with face uncovered, behold, as clearly as we can see our own natural face in a
mirror, the glorious promises and privileges of the Gospel of Christ; and while we contemplate, we anticipate them by
desire and hope, and apprehend them by faith, and are changed from the glory there represented to the enjoyment of the
thing which is represented, even the glorious image - righteousness and true holiness - of the God of glory
.

The LDS' "New Testament Teacher's Manual" has a reference to exaltation -

"The Apostle Paul wrote that as the Spirit
of the Lord works within us, we “are changed into the same image”
as the Lord (2 Corinthians 3:18) and we grow
closer to Him. The word “changed” (metamorphoō)
in 2 Corinthians 3:18 is the same word translated as
“transfigured” in Matthew 17:2 and Mark 9:2 and as
“transformed” in Romans 12:2. It indicates a dramatic,
fundamental transformation—a metamorphosis. The
Spirit is the means by which God gradually transforms
us into glorious beings like Him. Alma similarly taught
that when we are spiritually born of God, we receive
His image in our countenances (see Alma 5:14; the
commentary for Romans 8:29).
The phrase “glory to glory” could also be translated
“with increasing glory” or “to higher degrees of glory,”
thus suggesting man’s potential to gradually become
like Heavenly Father.
Furthermore, when we become the children of Christ we
begin to take on the image, countenance, and characteristics
of our spiritual Father, Jesus Christ (see Mosiah 5:7).

Jim

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59 minutes ago, theplains said:

I read this commentary by Adam Clarke - "The Jews were not able to look on the face of Moses, the mediator of the old
covenant, and therefore he was obliged to veil it; but all we Christians, with face uncovered, behold, as clearly as we can
see our own natural face in a mirror, the glorious promises and privileges of the Gospel of Christ; and while we contemplate,
we anticipate them by desire and hope, and apprehend them by faith, and are changed from the glory there represented
to the enjoyment of the thing which is represented, even the glorious image - righteousness and true holiness - of the God
of glory.The Jews were not able to look on the face of Moses, the mediator of the old covenant, and therefore he was
obliged to veil it; but all we Christians, with face uncovered, behold, as clearly as we can see our own natural face in a
mirror, the glorious promises and privileges of the Gospel of Christ; and while we contemplate, we anticipate them by
desire and hope, and apprehend them by faith, and are changed from the glory there represented to the enjoyment of the
thing which is represented, even the glorious image - righteousness and true holiness - of the God of glory
.

The LDS' "New Testament Teacher's Manual" has a reference to exaltation -

"The Apostle Paul wrote that as the Spirit
of the Lord works within us, we “are changed into the same image”
as the Lord (2 Corinthians 3:18) and we grow
closer to Him. The word “changed” (metamorphoō)
in 2 Corinthians 3:18 is the same word translated as
“transfigured” in Matthew 17:2 and Mark 9:2 and as
“transformed” in Romans 12:2. It indicates a dramatic,
fundamental transformation—a metamorphosis. The
Spirit is the means by which God gradually transforms
us into glorious beings like Him. Alma similarly taught
that when we are spiritually born of God, we receive
His image in our countenances (see Alma 5:14; the
commentary for Romans 8:29).
The phrase “glory to glory” could also be translated
“with increasing glory” or “to higher degrees of glory,”
thus suggesting man’s potential to gradually become
like Heavenly Father.
Furthermore, when we become the children of Christ we
begin to take on the image, countenance, and characteristics
of our spiritual Father, Jesus Christ (see Mosiah 5:7).

Jim

It means if it were clearly revealed to us what we have the potential to become through the transformative power of Christ, it would be like looking into a mirror and seeing the glorious face of Christ instead of our own; that through the power of the eternal Spirit we can betransformed, step by step (from glory to glory) until the day comes when we are filled with all the fulness of God, becoming joint heirs with Christ in ALL he possesses with the right to rule and reign as kings in eternity and sit upon the throne of his eternal power. 

You obviously believe God has the power to transform us into godly beings of supernal power and glory. Why do you think He lacks the power to complete the job and make us fully like Him in every way, so that within us there is only light and no darkness at all? If He does possess the power to fully transform us, what do you think is His motivation is in wanting to hold us back from fully becoming as he is?

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On 8/11/2018 at 4:52 PM, VelvetShadow said:

I had no idea that mormons dont believe in the Nicene Creed

VelvetShadow, Jesus doesn't believe The Nicene Creed. How could he? Was he there? Did he get to vote on it? Was Peter, James, John, Paul et. al. there? It is a man-made god. Which is why after 1,693 years of this heresy, no one can explain or understand it. 

(sorry about the bold, can't turn it off, don't know how)

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On 7/23/2018 at 7:42 PM, theplains said:

Is there any LDS teaching which shows when this man (who became a God) first imagined he would be 
worshipped by his spirit children on the planet we now call Earth?

Thanks,
Jim

 

Jim:

Are you aware early church fathers believed as we do? How did Joseph Smith get early Christian doctrine so spot on? Furthermore, how come modern non-LDS Christianity is so far removed from early church fathers? 

Answer: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has the greatest similarities to the ancient church of Jesus Christ and his apostles bar none. 

https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Mormonism_and_the_nature_of_God/Deification_of_man#Question:_What_were_the_views_of_early_Christians_on_the_deification_of_man.3F

More links for you:

https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Question:_Do_Mormon_men_believe_that_they_will_become_"gods_of_their_own_planets"_and_rule_over_others%3F

https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Mormonism_and_the_nature_of_God/Deification_of_man#UnChristian.3F

 

 

 

Edited by Semi
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On 7/23/2018 at 6:42 PM, theplains said:

Is there any LDS teaching which shows when this man (who became a God) first imagined he would be 
worshipped by his spirit children on the planet we now call Earth?

Thanks,
Jim

I don’t think God does what He does in order to be worshipped, I believe He does it so that we can become like him. 

Here is a quote from Joseph Smith  

The first principles of man are self-existent with God. God himself, finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory, because he was more intelligent, saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself. The relationship we have with God places us in a situation to advance in knowledge. He has power to institute laws to instruct the weaker intelligences, that they may be exalted with Himself, so that they might have one glory upon another, and all that knowledge, power, glory, and intelligence, which is requisite in order to save them in the world of spirits.”

 

Edited by BJ64
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On 8/20/2018 at 9:15 PM, Jersey Boy said:

You obviously believe God has the power to transform us into godly beings of supernal power and glory. Why do you think He lacks the power to complete the job and make us fully like Him in every way, so that within us there is only light and no darkness at all? If He does possess the power to fully transform us, what do you think is His motivation is in wanting to hold us back from fully becoming as he is?

It's a question of whether I want to believe God's word or believe in LDS teachings that I can become a God like
Heavenly Father and Jesus became Gods.  Isaiah 43:10 says, "Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant
whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God
formed, neither shall there be after me
."

Thanks,
Jim 

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On 8/20/2018 at 11:26 PM, Semi said:

Answer: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has the greatest similarities to the ancient church of Jesus Christ and his apostles bar none. 

Hello Semi,

The apostles did not believe or teach Heavenly Father and Jesus became Gods.

Jim

Edited by theplains
fixed grammar.
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15 hours ago, BJ64 said:

I don’t think God does what He does in order to be worshipped, I believe He does it so that we can become like him. 

Here is a quote from Joseph Smith  

The first principles of man are self-existent with God. God himself, finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory, because he was more intelligent, saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself. The relationship we have with God places us in a situation to advance in knowledge. He has power to institute laws to instruct the weaker intelligences, that they may be exalted with Himself, so that they might have one glory upon another, and all that knowledge, power, glory, and intelligence, which is requisite in order to save them in the world of spirits.”

An LDS manual says Jesus reached a pinnacle of intelligence which ranked him as a God.  In simple terms, he
became a God when he reached some level of intelligence (Religion 430-431- Doctrines of the Gospel - Student
Manual).

Jim

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