Do you have a theory on 2Ne 10:2?

[Sunday21]

2 Ne 10:2https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/10.24 (BOM) 

2 For behold, the promises which we have obtained are promises unto us according to the flesh; wherefore, as it has been shown unto me that many of our children shall perish in the flesh because of unbelief, nevertheless, God will be merciful unto many; and our children shall be restored, that they may come to that which will give them the true knowledge of their Redeemer.

Do you have an interpretation of this? I have meet lds folk who believe that the children of the covenant will enter the highest kingdom although they knowingly sinned in life, once they repented off their sins. I wonder if this is the scripture on which they based this conclusion. What do you think? 

I was looking at the Ridges commentary and it references D&C 49:24 4 But before the great day of the Lord shall come, Jacob shall flourish in the wilderness, and the Lamanites shall blossom as the rose.

The ridges comment suggests that BOM scripture has the commentator looking forward to Laminite descendants becoming converts to the lds faith.

What do you think of this ‘coat tails’ argument that children of the covenant will be given a 2nd chance to repent of sins that they knowingly committed? 

Edited July 24, 2018 by Sunday21

[zil]

1 hour ago, Sunday21 said:

The ridges comment suggests that BOM scripture has the commentator looking forward to Laminite descendants becoming converts to the lds faith.

Think about the whole history of the Book of Mormon - start to end.  This prophecy isn't about person X being given a second chance, it's about the fact that while the Lamanites (and many Nephites) knowingly threw away their probation and chose sin, their descendants - in the latter days (aka now) - will have the opportunity to hear the gospel and those who so choose will be restored to the covenant and knowledge of the truth.

This prophecy is epic in scope - whether any given individual qualifies, or decides to accept the truth, is up to that individual - as always.  Most of the prophecies of the Book of Mormon are this way - "here's what will happen to the culture as a whole, but each individual is free to choose which side they'll be on."

[zil]

1 hour ago, Sunday21 said:

2nd chance to repent of sins that they knowingly committed? 

Read the 70 times 7 talk from the last General Conference.  We all get a near infinite number of chances to repent - every second of every day up until the Lord says it's finished.

[Sunday21]

25 minutes ago, zil said:

Read the 70 times 7 talk from the last General Conference.  We all get a near infinite number of chances to repent - every second of every day up until the Lord says it's finished.

Here is the 70 times 7 talk for anyone following this thread.  https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2018/04/until-seventy-times-seven?lang=eng

[Sunday21]

@zil Thank you! 

[askandanswer]

2 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

What do you think of this ‘coat tails’ argument that children of the covenant will be given a 2nd chance to repent of sins that they knowingly committed

I hope so  

[CV75]

11 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

2 Ne 10:2https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/10.24 (BOM) 

2 For behold, the promises which we have obtained are promises unto us according to the flesh; wherefore, as it has been shown unto me that many of our children shall perish in the flesh because of unbelief, nevertheless, God will be merciful unto many; and our children shall be restored, that they may come to that which will give them the true knowledge of their Redeemer.

Do you have an interpretation of this? I have meet lds folk who believe that the children of the covenant will enter the highest kingdom although they knowingly sinned in life, once they repented off their sins. I wonder if this is the scripture on which they based this conclusion. What do you think? 

I was looking at the Ridges commentary and it references D&C 49:24 4 But before the great day of the Lord shall come, Jacob shall flourish in the wilderness, and the Lamanites shall blossom as the rose.

The ridges comment suggests that BOM scripture has the commentator looking forward to Laminite descendants becoming converts to the lds faith.

What do you think of this ‘coat tails’ argument that children of the covenant will be given a 2nd chance to repent of sins that they knowingly committed? 

No coat tails, but it does speak to work in the spirit world for those who were destroyed in the flesh as well as the gathering of their descendants who find the Gospel in the last days.

[mordorbund]

18 hours ago, zil said:

Think about the whole history of the Book of Mormon - start to end.  This prophecy isn't about person X being given a second chance, it's about the fact that while the Lamanites (and many Nephites) knowingly threw away their probation and chose sin, their descendants - in the latter days (aka now) - will have the opportunity to hear the gospel and those who so choose will be restored to the covenant and knowledge of the truth.

This prophecy is epic in scope - whether any given individual qualifies, or decides to accept the truth, is up to that individual - as always.  Most of the prophecies of the Book of Mormon are this way - "here's what will happen to the culture as a whole, but each individual is free to choose which side they'll be on."

I've sometimes wondered if this was the intended meaning of the "divine tentacles" quote. Not that the wayward will be pulled back into salvation, but that the branch will not be completely cut off. I usually keep it to myself, because those who are looking for comfort in that quote won't find much comfort in that interpretation.

[zil]

2 hours ago, mordorbund said:

I've sometimes wondered if this was the intended meaning of the "divine tentacles" quote. Not that the wayward will be pulled back into salvation, but that the branch will not be completely cut off. I usually keep it to myself, because those who are looking for comfort in that quote won't find much comfort in that interpretation.

I am 100% sure that the most righteous of parents will not be able to elevate the salvation of their wayward child in spite of said child's behavior / wishes.  They may well have a positive influence and thereby change the child's heart over time, but the child still must freely choose.

I also think that it will take massive willpower to end up in outer darkness.  One might call this pride (and no doubt, lots of arrogance will be required too), but I believe it will require serious endurance and force of will to choose perdition knowing full well what you're doing.  Thus, the vast majority of wayward children seem likely to end up in a kingdom of glory sooner or later.

But yeah, I'm not about to say that to a parent needing hope and comfort (in part because there's just no telling what their particular child will do, and thus, there's always hope).

[Sunday21]

11 hours ago, CV75 said:

No coat tails, but it does speak to work in the spirit world for those who were destroyed in the flesh as well as the gathering of their descendants who find the Gospel in the last days.

@CV75 Thank you for your post! What does ‘destroyed In the flesh’ mean? Died? Died in sin? Knowingly sinned? 

[Sunday21]

@zil Thank you! I was the only ‘not born in the covenant’ person in a young adult Sunday school class in my teens. Most of the others were unpleasant but no doubt have become nicer with age. Anyway, they believed that they would get into the celestial kingdom on their parent’s coattails. I suspect that they have reformed.

Edited July 25, 2018 by Sunday21

[CV75]

13 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

@CV75 Thank you for your post! What does ‘destroyed In the flesh’ mean? Died? Died in sin? Knowingly sinned? 

Since it relates to the "promises unto us according to the flesh," I think it has to do with losing both temporal and spiritual blessings in this life for both the disobedient and those that dwindled in unbelief. As a result, their descendants are (were!) much disadvantaged until the promised times of restoration and they are gathered back in.

[Still_Small_Voice]

I am glad the LORD continues to give me chances in His mercy.  In life I stumble continually trying to carry my Christian cross and I sometimes wonder if I will make it.  Do not rationalize and rebel and keep repenting daily, endure to the end and you will make it to the celestial kingdom with God.

Edited July 25, 2018 by Still_Small_Voice

[theplains]

On 7/23/2018 at 9:22 PM, Sunday21 said:

I was looking at the Ridges commentary and it references D&C 49:24 4 But before the great day of the Lord shall come, Jacob shall flourish in the wilderness, and the Lamanites shall blossom as the rose.

What LDS teachings identify who these Lamanites are?

Thanks,
Jim

[Anddenex]

On 7/23/2018 at 7:22 PM, Sunday21 said:

2 For behold, the promises which we have obtained are promises unto us according to the flesh; wherefore, as it has been shown unto me that many of our children shall perish in the flesh because of unbelief, nevertheless, God will be merciful unto many; and our children shall be restored, that they may come to that which will give them the true knowledge of their Redeemer.

I am not sure I will be providing a new thought, but possibly a different way of explaining this verse. Here are the main points of this verse:

1) Promises obtained according to the flesh

2) Children who perish in the flesh due to unbelief

3) God is merciful to those who have perished in unbelief and will restore these children

4) They are restored because they are provided opportunity to come to know the true knowledge of their Redeemer

I would say it is very important as to whom received these promises. It was fathers and mothers who received these promises from the Lord. This should speak to us also who have children who are straying. I would say @mordorbund's comment has implication here. What promises then can we obtain as fathers and mothers toward our offspring?

The Book of Mormon is clear as to children who chose to fall away, and as a result their children also perished in unbelief. This speaks toward ministering in the flesh, and ministering in the Spirit World, or as President Nelson said in this past conference, "Our message to the world is simple and sincere: we invite all of God’s children on both sides of the veil to come unto their Savior, receive the blessings of the holy temple, have enduring joy, and qualify for eternal life."

I would say this scripture also correlates with this verse of scripture, "And these are those who have part in the first resurrection; and these are they that have died before Christ came, in their ignorance, not having salvation declared unto them. And thus the Lord bringeth about the restoration of these; and they have a part in the first resurrection, or have eternal life, being redeemed by the Lord." Mosiah 15: 24

[Jersey Boy]

On 7/23/2018 at 9:22 PM, Sunday21 said:

2 Ne 10:2https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/10.24 (BOM) 

2 For behold, the promises which we have obtained are promises unto us according to the flesh; wherefore, as it has been shown unto me that many of our children shall perish in the flesh because of unbelief, nevertheless, God will be merciful unto many; and our children shall be restored, that they may come to that which will give them the true knowledge of their Redeemer.

Do you have an interpretation of this? I have meet lds folk who believe that the children of the covenant will enter the highest kingdom although they knowingly sinned in life, once they repented off their sins. I wonder if this is the scripture on which they based this conclusion. What do you think? 

I was looking at the Ridges commentary and it references D&C 49:24 4 But before the great day of the Lord shall come, Jacob shall flourish in the wilderness, and the Lamanites shall blossom as the rose.

The ridges comment suggests that BOM scripture has the commentator looking forward to Laminite descendants becoming converts to the lds faith.

What do you think of this ‘coat tails’ argument that children of the covenant will be given a 2nd chance to repent of sins that they knowingly committed? 

This verse anticipates the doctrine of the salvation of the dead as set forth in Doctrine and Covenants sections 76 and 138. The Lord informs Nephi he is going to show mercy unto many of the Nephites who died in a state of unbelief, without salvation, by having the gospel of Christ preached to them in the world of the spirits of the departed dead. The reason why it’s said the promise is made according to the flesh is because those who embrace the gospel in the realm of the spirits of the departed dead are judged just as if they had embraced the gospel while in the flesh. The great program of the salvation of the dead is made possible by the fact that when one performs vicarious temple ordinances in behalf of someone who is deceased, the ordinances are viewed by God precisely as if they had been performed by the deceased person while still in the flesh. Therefore the dead who embrace the gospel are judged as if they are still in the flesh while living living according to the commandments of God in the spirit world.. This is why when we do proxy work in the temples we are told to think of ourselves as if we are the person for whom we are performing the work.

Many of the great Nephites prophets knew about the doctrine of the salvation of the dead, but in 3 Nephi 26 the Lord explicitly warns Mormon not to include the more advanced doctrines of salvation, such as the doctrine of the salvation of the dead, in his abridgment, and this is why Nephi’s words suggest the doctrine of the salvation of the dead without being unambiguously specific.

8 And these things have I written, which are a lesser part of the things which he taught the people; and I have written them to the intent that they may be brought again unto this people, from the Gentiles, according to the words which Jesus hath spoken.

9 And when they shall have received this, which is expedient that they should have first, to try their faith, and if it shall so be that they shall believe these things then shall the greater things be made manifest unto them.

10 And if it so be that they will not believe these things, then shall the greater things be withheld from them, unto their condemnation.

11 Behold, I was about to write them, all which were engraven upon the plates of Nephi, but the Lord forbade it, saying: I will try the faith of my people. (3 Nephi 26)

Edited August 7, 2018 by Jersey Boy

[BJ64]

Our stake president is also a full time seminary teacher. He has taught that if the children are sealed to the parents and the parents live worthily that sealing will remain in effect and through some means all the children will be saved with them. 

I believe there is wording in the sealing ceremonies that could imply such a thing. The sealing of parents is dependent on their worthiness but the sealing of children is not if I’m remembering correctly. However I don’t want to quote those things here.  

[Sunday21]

I think perhaps celestial beings are allowed to visit those in lower kingdoms.

[DennisTate]

On 7/23/2018 at 10:22 PM, Sunday21 said:

2 Ne 10:2https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/10.24 (BOM) 

2 For behold, the promises which we have obtained are promises unto us according to the flesh; wherefore, as it has been shown unto me that many of our children shall perish in the flesh because of unbelief, nevertheless, God will be merciful unto many; and our children shall be restored, that they may come to that which will give them the true knowledge of their Redeemer.

Do you have an interpretation of this? I have meet lds folk who believe that the children of the covenant will enter the highest kingdom although they knowingly sinned in life, once they repented off their sins. I wonder if this is the scripture on which they based this conclusion. What do you think? 

I was looking at the Ridges commentary and it references D&C 49:24 4 But before the great day of the Lord shall come, Jacob shall flourish in the wilderness, and the Lamanites shall blossom as the rose.

The ridges comment suggests that BOM scripture has the commentator looking forward to Laminite descendants becoming converts to the lds faith.

What do you think of this ‘coat tails’ argument that children of the covenant will be given a 2nd chance to repent of sins that they knowingly committed? 

I am one of those rather strange people who will read articles on String Theory or

"Stephen Hawking's Universe".... just for fun?! (Life in Canada with our horrible climate can do terrible things to the human mind)?!

In theory....... near death experiencer Rabbi Alon Anava......  may....... in an example of applied Multiverse Theory... .have actually died and been buried......

as was shown to him during his NDE........... and in that time line....... He may NOT have became the amazing teacher that he is in our time line........

 

If so....  then in our time line........ Ezekiel chapter 37 has in a major way been fulfilled for Rabbi Alon Anava.........

and perhaps he has a massive "Cyrus|"  calling on his life...... and maybe Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is leading him by the right hand.......

much as (I assume) the Ancient of Days the Father and / or the Word / Logos led ancient King Cyrus.... who decreed the rebuilding of the Temple of King Solomon by Ezra, Nehemiah, Zerubbabel, Haggai and others?