More drama from June Hughes/Mckenna Denson

[Just_A_Guy]

She has fired her lawyers.

And even Mike Norton is bailing out.  (Link is safe, goes to the always thoughtful Steven Smoot.)

[NeedleinA]

17 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

She has fired her lawyers.

And even Mike Norton is bailing out.  (Link is safe, goes to the always thoughtful Steven Smoot.)

What a sloppy mess, the whole situation.
G.B. Shaw:

Quote

I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.

 

[Guest Mores]

12 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

She has fired her lawyers.

And even Mike Norton is bailing out.  (Link is safe, goes to the always thoughtful Steven Smoot.)

It's amazing the things one hears about when involved in an online community.  

Having read the thread and its many links, this woman is pretty twisted.  And I think I could have led a very happy life having never heard of this.  And the world would be a better place ignoring it.

[NeuroTypical]

I've said this elsewhere, I'll say it here too:

I am commanded to love my neighbor, and Denson is my neighbor, so here goes.   Watched the whole video, spent the time reviewing the various leaks and police reports and accounts.  I am sad for Denson.   Borderline Personality Disorder is not fun.  It's not fun to have it, not fun to be in the life of someone who has it.  One of the reason lies are a bad thing, is they cause damage in lots of directions, including back at the person lying.  It's hard to live around people who have lost trust in you, which I'm sure is happening here in great amounts.  Most of all, I'm sad because I believe the balance of the evidence, even including this 40 minute summary of her past crap, still indicates she had some traumatic thing (probably a series of them across her early life), where she was abused by various people in various ways.  She started out like any of us - an innocent little kid.  I think it's a reasonable guess that a significant portion of her brokenness is because of crap that happened to her when she was innocent and trying.  Trauma and abuse screw you up.  Not everybody gets to emerge on the other end of such a trial fully healthy and happy.  I know that there are folks who just are about as healthy as they'll ever be, no matter how much additional help or counseling or healing they get, and I believe it's possible Denson might be about as healthy as she'll ever be.  I can have love, sympathy, pity, and perhaps a tiny tad of empathy for her.  None of this excuses or justifies her behavior, but I do find it possible to love her as my neighbor.

I live in Colorado Springs.  I've eaten at that PF Changs where she supposedly ingested razor blades.  The more I read, the more I keep expecting to see a name I recognize. 

Edited June 4, 2019 by NeuroTypical

[Guest Mores]

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

I've said this elsewhere, I'll say it here too:

I am commanded to love my neighbor, and Denson is my neighbor, so here goes.   Watched the whole video, spent the time reviewing the various leaks and police reports and accounts.  I am sad for Denson.   Borderline Personality Disorder is not fun.  It's not fun to have it, not fun to be in the life of someone who has it.  One of the reason lies are a bad thing, is they cause damage in lots of directions, including back at the person lying.  It's hard to live around people who has lost trust in you, which I'm sure is happening here in great amounts.  Most of all, I'm sad because I believe the balance of the evidence, even including this 40 minute summary of her past crap, still indicates she had some traumatic thing (probably a series of them across her early life), where she was abused by various people in various ways.  She started out like any of us - an innocent little kid.  I think it's a reasonable guess that a significant portion of her brokenness is because of crap that happened to her when she was innocent and trying.  Trauma and abuse screw you up.  Not everybody gets to emerge on the other end of such a trial fully healthy and happy.  I know that there are folks who just are about as healthy as they'll ever be, no matter how much additional help or counseling or healing they get, and I believe it's possible Denson might be about as healthy as she'll ever be.  I can have love, sympathy, pity, and perhaps a tiny tad of empathy for her.  None of this excuses or justifies her behavior, but I do find it possible to love her as my neighbor.

I live in Colorado Springs.  I've eaten at that PF Changs where she supposedly ingested razor blades.  The more I read, the more I keep expecting to see a name I recognize. 

So, you're calling out my too hasty judgment of a daughter of God who has apparently suffered much.  And you're calling on me to be more Christlike.

How can I argue with that?

I apologize for not showing enough compassion in my assessment of Denson.  Yes, it is a sad tale no matter what actually did or did not happen.

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

I've said this elsewhere, I'll say it here too:

I am commanded to love my neighbor, and Denson is my neighbor, so here goes.   Watched the whole video, spent the time reviewing the various leaks and police reports and accounts.  I am sad for Denson.   Borderline Personality Disorder is not fun.  It's not fun to have it, not fun to be in the life of someone who has it.  One of the reason lies are a bad thing, is they cause damage in lots of directions, including back at the person lying.  It's hard to live around people who has lost trust in you, which I'm sure is happening here in great amounts.  Most of all, I'm sad because I believe the balance of the evidence, even including this 40 minute summary of her past crap, still indicates she had some traumatic thing (probably a series of them across her early life), where she was abused by various people in various ways.  She started out like any of us - an innocent little kid.  I think it's a reasonable guess that a significant portion of her brokenness is because of crap that happened to her when she was innocent and trying.  Trauma and abuse screw you up.  Not everybody gets to emerge on the other end of such a trial fully healthy and happy.  I know that there are folks who just are about as healthy as they'll ever be, no matter how much additional help or counseling or healing they get, and I believe it's possible Denson might be about as healthy as she'll ever be.  I can have love, sympathy, pity, and perhaps a tiny tad of empathy for her.  None of this excuses or justifies her behavior, but I do find it possible to love her as my neighbor.

I live in Colorado Springs.  I've eaten at that PF Changs where she supposedly ingested razor blades.  The more I read, the more I keep expecting to see a name I recognize. 

I don't know that I buy into the idea that people who do wicked things translates to -- something that someone else did to them must have caused it. Not that I'm arguing that something must not have caused it either. I just don't know that the wickedness in and of itself leads to the logical conclusion that it must have been because of "crap that happened" when they were innocent. That being said, even if nothing happened to "cause" the wickedness but sheer choice, there's still good reason to have love, sympathy, pity, and empathy.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

53 minutes ago, Mores said:

So, you're calling out my too hasty judgment of a daughter of God who has apparently suffered much.  And you're calling on me to be more Christlike.

How can I argue with that?

I apologize for not showing enough compassion in my assessment of Denson.  Yes, it is a sad tale no matter what actually did or did not happen.

If it helps, I felt called out to (in a good way) for my unexpressed thoughts.  Being a survivor, myself, I'm angry that women like this make it harder for all victims (women and men) to be believed. Grrr. But Neurotypical is right.  Thanks Neuro for the reminder. 

[Guest Mores]

1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I don't know that I buy into the idea that people who do wicked things translates to -- something that someone else did to them must have caused it. Not that I'm arguing that something must not have caused it either. I just don't know that the wickedness in and of itself leads to the logical conclusion that it must have been because of "crap that happened" when they were innocent. That being said, even if nothing happened to "cause" the wickedness but sheer choice, there's still good reason to have love, sympathy, pity, and empathy.

Yes, you make a good point too.  But I don't think that precludes us from having some sympathy for those who do sin.

Example: We usually are much more forgiving of someone's bad behavior when we realize they simply didn't now any better.  It is easy for us to say that morality is innate.  But if they were raised in a different culture where they quashed certain ideals of morality that we hold dear, then is it a surprise that they didn't follow the same ideology?  This doesn't mean that what they did was not wrong.  It was.  Just as much as when a child does something wrong.  It is still wrong.  But we tend to have much more forbearance and forgiveness for those who simply didn't know better.  The Lamanites were an example.  Ammon loved them enough to want to teach them.

Only somewhat less forgivable, then, is the person who through continued negative experience begins to see through "evil colored glasses" and perceives some annoyances as horrific (as an example).  And because of that they do things that may seem twisted or even insane to us.  It's difficult to pass judgment on someone like that so easily.

But speaking to your position, I believe it is perfectly acceptable to separate the sin from the sinner and have pity for the sinner while condemning the sin.

[NeuroTypical]

Sorry @Mores - I wasn't trying to call you out at all.  When I wrote this (on another board), the only person I was trying to call out was my own natural man.  Denson is doing things that make her not easy to love.  It's a good challenge for me.

[Just_A_Guy]

It’s always easier to love people with personality disorders, when we are loving them from afar.  When they keep hitting us again and again in deeply personal, visceral ways—I think we’re less inclined to muster pity.  

Denson is clearly ill, but that doesn’t undo the damage she has done or the wounds she has inflicted.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Just_A_Guy

[estradling75]

I think this case is a perfect example of why choosing to be of good character is important.  (While there can be some very hard circumstances it is still a choice)

Truth is important... facts are important...  But sadly we do not always have knowledge of truth and facts... and that leaves the character of those making the claim.

I do not know why she is the way she is.

I do not know what is the truth of her claims.

I do find her to be of questionable character due to her past choices...  which hurts her... her claims... and everyone connected to her...  and even others unconnected by anything but a similar claim.

 

 

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, Mores said:

But I don't think that precludes us from having some sympathy for those who do sin.

Did you not read the full paragraph? I literally ended it with:

2 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

there's still good reason to have love, sympathy, pity, and empathy.

 

[Guest Mores]

1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Did you not read the full paragraph? I literally ended it with:

 

No, I guess I did not.  My apologies.

[Vort]

21 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

She has fired her lawyers.

And even Mike Norton is bailing out.  (Link is safe, goes to the always thoughtful Steven Smoot.)

I read the articles. I did not read or listen to the Mike Norton tapes/vids/whatever. I can do just fine without bathing in raw sewage, thankyewverrumuch.

I do not have sufficient charity or pity for these people. They disgust me. I am sure they do not disgust the Savior, not like they do me. On the contrary, perhaps the Savior is more disquieted by my lack of empathy than by their horrible actions. (Seems a stretch, but seriously, maybe it's true. I don't know.)

I don't know much (read: anything) about so-called Borderline Personality Disorder. Modern psychology, shameless pseudo-science that it is, is all about disculpating people from their actions. When I see a term like Borderline Personality Disorder, I just sort of naturally assume that it's another attempt to say, "It's not her fault!"

People make decisions. Some of those decisions are bad. All of them carry consequences. When people make bad decisions that carry harsh consequences, whose fault is that? And when those harsh consequences damage the people and lead them into making more bad decisions, whose fault is that vicious cycle? Does there come a point where the person is truly no longer responsible for her evils, at least from some point onward?

Maybe this was Alma the younger's situation. One of the mightiest prophets in all of scripture, as a young man he was nevertheless a "very wicked man". His conscious decisions led him down that path, despite the urgings and teachings of his father and namesake. Lost seemingly beyond all recall, yet not beyond all hope.

It's clear to me that Hughes/Denson is a twisted individual. It also seems clear that her horrific experiences could not have begun with a pervy MTC president, and that Bishop sensed her weakness and used it for his own perverse pleasure. I hope that Bishop can repent from that perversion. But what of those he harmed? What of June Hughes, who now calls herself McKenna Denson? He may not have started that particular fire, but he threw a few big logs onto it.

If we could see the intrinsic value of the soul of June Hughes, doubtless we all would be rooting for her and hoping and praying for her eventual deliverance—no, deliverance is the wrong work; let's say redemption—from the consequences of her choices and behavior. In this sense, I do hope for the best for her, just as I do even for such clowns as Mike Norton. But reading about the words and actions of such people makes me grit my teeth and wish I didn't have to share space or air with them. Well, not literally, of course, but I do wish such people were simply outside any sphere of influence they might have on me and those I love. That is literally what I wish, and it's not a worthy thought. We all would be lost if God had such an attitude.

[NeuroTypical]

Sheesh.  After what, two years?  And a lot of drama, this has finally happened:

https://www.ksl.com/article/50065193/colorado-woman-church-agree-to-dismiss-sex-assault-lawsuit-involving-ex-mtc-president

Quote

A federal judge in Salt Lake City terminated the case after McKenna Denson and the church filed a motion Thursday seeking a dismissal of the case with prejudice, meaning Denson cannot sue the church again on the same grounds.

"The parties have not entered into a settlement, and aside from the agreement to bear their own fees and costs, there are no further agreements between them," according to the filing.