As a Political Science Major I have always been interested in general Church Views to Political Figures


LatterDSaint
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15 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

I would be a fifth that did not vote for Trump.  Things would have to be looking pretty grim to force me to vote for him.  Trump seems pretty evil to me and a "very not nice bad guy" type individual.  He seems pretty sinful.  I do not like the way he disrespects veterans, the disabled, and other groups that are not so fortunate.  He seems to act like a spoiled rich kid, even though he's not a kid anymore (he's actually my generation I believe).

I don't know where he would end up.  I don't know his heart, what he has been taught, or how he is seen in the eyes of the Lord.  Judgment is the Lord's.  We, on the otherhand, should refrain from trying to pass a final judgment.  For all I know I could be the one who ends up in the Telestial Kingdom and he could end up in the Celestial Kingdom in the highest degree.  I do not know.

I hope to at least avoid eternal punishment, and hopefully, even if I end up in the Telestial, will at least go right to the reward rather than suffering for a while in torment.  All we can do is hope for our own salvation and pray that we are righteous enough to reach exaltation.

We do have a stewardship over our vote.  We can (and really must) make a judgement on who to vote for.  Since our vote is under our stewardship we can use use any criteria we wish to make that judgement (although the Lord clearly has instructions and directions on that subject).  However we must be careful to recognize the limited nature of that judgement that we are allowed to make and other judgements that we tend to make following such a determination

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No longer an anonymous accusation. Can't wait to see the mental gymnastics some of you people will twist yourselves into now lol. But by all means keep supporting a man suspected of attempted rape. I'm sure what you have learnt in Sacrament and Sunday School today has taught you to give men like this the benefit of doubt when it comes to the position of having the most power in the country...image.thumb.png.3b95169f01208b468079ca2f275809f8.png

Edited by LatterDSaint
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Guest MormonGator

Right now, it's a he said-she said incident with no solid proof on either side.

It's also interesting that she waited until he became a potential justice for the supreme court to say anything. 

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I am aware that politics can become extremely divisive. I get it. However I would hope that all members of the Church, RM or not can remain respectful if we disagree with someone else's political stance. 

Sorry man, didnt mean to hurt your feelings but I am going to tell it like it is rather than remain politically correct. 

And I get that you support Trump. Is that just because of your 401K looking good or is it because he sleeps with adult ****stars?

Really confused how politics all of a sudden makes many church members forget about the values Christ has laid out for us in the gospel....

Or does your whole reasoning change when someone from your family becomes the accuser? Its common so Im not going to shame you too much for admitting so...

Are those your adjectives to describe preventing a supreme court nominee from being confirmed? hahaha

Can't wait to see the mental gymnastics some of you people will twist yourselves into now lol. 

[Italics and underlining mine.]

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Here's the original story of Kavanaugh's accuser:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/california-professor-writer-of-confidential-brett-kavanaugh-letter-speaks-out-about-her-allegation-of-sexual-assault/2018/09/16/46982194-b846-11e8-94eb-3bd52dfe917b_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.99c6fd806e4a

No matter what the outcome for the persons involved, I just wanted to highlight something: Hey parents - train up your kids good, and make sure they don't get roaring underage drunk at parties.  We can argue all day about whether the specifics of this thing happened or not, or whether it should be material all these decades later or not.  But the lady handed over some notes taken by a marriage therapist in 2012 where she first talked about it openly.  It's a tragedy that there are so many similar stories.  Stuff like this traumatizes people and impacts their marriages.

Probably won't see anyone else denouncing underage drinking as part of discussing this news story, so here you go.

Edited by NeuroTypical
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1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

Right now, it's a he said-she said incident with no solid proof on either side.

It's also interesting that she waited until he became a potential justice for the supreme court to say anything. 

There will never be solid proof, of course.  But it looks like there is decent evidence that she was naming him to third parties as early as 2012.  That counts for something.

I’m now leaning towards the belief that this should be delayed.  Probably not more than a week or two, depending on how much evidence there is; but this needs a hearin IMHO.  

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On 9/14/2018 at 9:35 AM, LatterDSaint said:

I am aware that politics can become extremely divisive. I get it. However I would hope that all members of the Church, RM or not can remain respectful if we disagree with someone else's political stance. 

...

4 hours ago, LatterDSaint said:

which you clearly lack. But hey, it's within your rights to deny reality lol

4 hours ago, LatterDSaint said:

Well YEAH. Many people who knew Roy Moore liked him. That didnt mean that the allegations from 5 people that he molested them were false. From your logic here, you presume that those allegations from a minority number of individuals are false... Incredible. If your son or daughter was molested by a sicko and many people who knew the sicko backed him/her would you seriously tell your child "Well a lot more people who know this person say he is a great person and would never do something like this. I will take their attestations over your accusation because you are in the majority"...

Or does your whole reasoning change when someone from your family becomes the accuser? Its common so Im not going to shame you too much for admitting so...

4 hours ago, LatterDSaint said:

No longer an anonymous accusation. Can't wait to see the mental gymnastics some of you people will twist yourselves into now lol. But by all means keep supporting a man suspected of attempted rape. I'm sure what you have learnt in Sacrament and Sunday School today has taught you to give men like this the benefit of doubt when it comes to the position of having the most power in the country...

What happened?? O.o 

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3 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Right now, it's a he said-she said incident with no solid proof on either side.

It's also interesting that she waited until he became a potential justice for the supreme court to say anything. 

It seems that every Republican candidate for any office recently has either been racist, sexist, a bigot, or a rapist... Man... we are just having all the bad luck with the people we want in Washington arent we!

Edited by Fether
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2 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

There will never be solid proof, of course.  But it looks like there is decent evidence that she was naming him to third parties as early as 2012.  That counts for something.

I’m now leaning towards the belief that this should be delayed.  Probably not more than a week or two, depending on how much evidence there is; but this needs a hearin IMHO.  

Nothing wrong with a proper investigation of an allegation.  But as has been noted given the nature of the allegation and the time frame.. there is probably not much the legal system can do.  Without a legal verdict the presumption of innocence must stand... and we must trust in God justice and his timing.

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3 hours ago, Fether said:

It seems that every Republican candidate for any office recently has either been racist, sexist, a bigot, or a rapist... Man... we are just having all the bad luck with the people we want in Washington arent we!

Gorusch seemed to get by okay. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edit: It doesn't help when GOP voters vote for actual, literal Nazis and white supremacists.

 

 

Edited by Godless
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2 hours ago, estradling75 said:

Nothing wrong with a proper investigation of an allegation.  But as has been noted given the nature of the allegation and the time frame.. there is probably not much the legal system can do.  Without a legal verdict the presumption of innocence must stand... and we must trust in God justice and his timing.

FWIW, I’m taking about a Senate hearing; not a criminal court hearing.  I agree, the criminal system can’t touch him (and even if it could, it apparently was a juvenile offense).  

While I fully endorse “innocent until proven guilty” as a precept of criminal law; when it comes to evaluating candidates for public office (whether elected or appointed)—especially when that candidate seeks a lifetime appointment—I’m not sure I can afford to go into the game with any such presumptions.  

The more interesting question to me is, assuming the accusation is true but that Kavanaugh has lived a life of probity and rectitude since achieving adulthood: is there any coming back from such a past deed?

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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59 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

FWIW, I’m taking about a Senate hearing; not a criminal court hearing.  I agree, the criminal system can’t touch him (and even if it could, it apparently was a juvenile offense).  

While I fully endorse “innocent until proven guilty” as a precept of criminal law; when it comes to evaluating candidates for public office (whether elected or appointed)—especially when that candidate seeks a lifetime appointment—I’m not sure I can afford to go into the game with any such presumptions.  

The more interesting question to me is, assuming the accusation is true but that Kavanaugh has lived a life of probity and rectitude since achieving adulthood: is there any coming back from such a past deed?

Indeed...  The scripture that we have both quoted before in the past talks about seeking people of good character... and that is a judgment we are required to make... usually on very little hard data.

It seems to me we are to the point where we (as a society) define the character of a person as them on their worse day of their life (no matter how far in the past that is).  I understand reasoning behind this, and I even accept it more or less.  The problem I see with it is that it does not allow for change/growth/repentance.  I would not want someone looking at the high school me (from 30+ years ago) and use it to judge the current me. (and I do not have any major issues in my past)

And when we look at the scriptures we see people like the Anti-Nephi-Lehis...  They are given as repentant sinners of good character but they were also guilty of multiple murders.  Would an Anti-Nephi-Lehi type person pass the Character Test for our President or as a Supreme Court Judge?

Edited by estradling75
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On 9/14/2018 at 1:42 PM, omegaseamaster75 said:

I find it disrespectful to call our President a child. 

You specifically said you were not a US citizen in another thread.  Do you want to be an American citizen?  If the the answer is yes you should respect the office of the President.  If not mind your own business.

I'm glad I saw this post.  I really don't care what other nations think about our president.  Most of them have already handed the keys to their lives to their overlords.

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16 hours ago, LatterDSaint said:

No longer an anonymous accusation. Can't wait to see the mental gymnastics some of you people will twist yourselves into now lol. But by all means keep supporting a man suspected of attempted rape. I'm sure what you have learnt in Sacrament and Sunday School today has taught you to give men like this the benefit of doubt when it comes to the position of having the most power in the country...image.thumb.png.3b95169f01208b468079ca2f275809f8.png

And now you've skipped from wanting a discussion on politics to being blatantly insulting.

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30 minutes ago, Grunt said:

And now you've skipped from wanting a discussion on politics to being blatantly insulting.

Worse, sitting on a post like a vulture waiting for his fellow saints to die so he can come and peck at their wounds.  (Maybe my memory is short, but I really can't recall someone here expressing such glee at the anticipated negative experience / behavior of others.)

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21 minutes ago, zil said:

Worse, sitting on a post like a vulture waiting for his fellow saints to die so he can come and peck at their wounds.  (Maybe my memory is short, but I really can't recall someone here expressing such glee at the anticipated negative experience / behavior of others.)

That's the worst part about situations like this, you have one side playing damage control and another side relishing in the opponent's discomfort. And in the middle of it all you have a woman who is reliving unimaginable trauma that she's spent decades trying to heal from. And then people wonder why more victims don't come forward. 

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3 minutes ago, Godless said:

That's the worst part about situations like this, you have one side playing damage control and another side relishing in the opponent's discomfort. And in the middle of it all you have a woman who is reliving unimaginable trauma that she's spent decades trying to heal from. And then people wonder why more victims don't come forward. 

I was talking about LatterDSaint's attitude as expressed in this thread.  (Which I assume is what @Grunt was commenting on.)

(weirdness)  But I suppose my comment could be applied elsewhere as well.

Edited by zil
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4 minutes ago, zil said:

I was talking about LatterDSaint's attitude as expressed in this thread.  (Which I assume is what @Grunt was commenting on.)

(weirdness)  But I suppose my comment could be applied elsewhere as well.

I guess you could say I did some mental gymnastics with my interpretation of your post, though your intended (and very valid) point didn't go unnoticed.

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51 minutes ago, Godless said:

That's the worst part about situations like this, you have one side playing damage control and another side relishing in the opponent's discomfort. And in the middle of it all you have a woman who is reliving unimaginable trauma that she's spent decades trying to heal from. And then people wonder why more victims don't come forward. 

It's sounding like she will get the chance to testify under oath before congress.  Given the time frame of the accusation this might be the best she gets under the legal system.  If this happens she will most definitively be heard (and she should be).  Whether that changes anything remains to be seen.  I am also interested in seeing if anyone else comes forth following her.

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18 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

There will never be solid proof, of course.  But it looks like there is decent evidence that she was naming him to third parties as early as 2012.  That counts for something.

I’m now leaning towards the belief that this should be delayed.  Probably not more than a week or two, depending on how much evidence there is; but this needs a hearin IMHO.  

2012 - Romney had a big chance of beating Obama and naming BK to the SC.

It's a funny meme but it strikes of possibility - each SC constitutionalist hopeful already have a Dem strategy behind it ready to go when needed.

ONE sex sandal even at 17 years old, can still topple SC appointees regardless of the decades long impeccable qualifications of an individual, both in character and in merit following... when faced with a Republican majority.  Whereas, Keith Ellison can still, of course, head the DNC with impunity.  And that's why, it's a powerful weapon that will always cripple the Republican Party.  ALWAYS.  

Brett Kavanaugh is not just your ordinary good guy.  He's actually one of those devout Catholics who has continuously served his fellowman.  For his character to be questioned because of an accusation at a party when he was 17... it's SICK.

AND WHAT DID I TELL YA... THE CATHOLIC PEDOPHILIA THING THAT HAS GONE FRONT AND CENTER IN THE NEWS IS FOR KAVANAUGH... IT PUTS HIS CATHOLIC SERVICE WORTH NOTHING IN THE EYES OF THE PUBLIC.  I KNEW IT!!!!

Edited by anatess2
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